Revan in ToR: relevancy of the irrelevant (Spoiler alert)

[Windhealer]

Hi there, I just don't where can I write this, so I created a new thread and apologize for a whole bunch of thoughts, but Revan in a simple Flashpoint, defeated by 4 pathetic creatures...? Well, that was a shock, the only unexpected and stupid thing, created by BioWare, in my opinion. Honestly, I did not even consider the possibility of such crap, not from BioWare! Yesterday there was a joke of mine about "as long as we won't have to raid Revan etc., this game is just fantastic". And today I go my first time to The Foundry only to see this horror come to life with my own eyes on my own display.

 

To avoid my long depressed rambling, I will only say, that I strongly believe iconic characters must not be raided, what kind of madness is that?! What were they created for then? To be killed of or defeated like weaklings in some MMO? Who is next on the list? The embodiment of the Force itself?! A simple game you can say, no need to react like that, not real, just 01010101 etc. Well, firstly, not as simple as one can think. Secondly, my hobby is scriptwriting, so tell me how am I supposed to react to such, sorry, sh*t?! Of course, Revan, and any character for that matter, is not needed to get nice investment from thousands of gamers, who probably don't even know or care who Revan is. Give them virtual stuff to mindlessly kill and they will pay, spending their life on pushing buttons for the sole purpose of pushing it. It has "lets go Blizzard way" written all over it. What kind of plot-killing plague is that anyway? First Warcraft universe (the first one I know of anyway, or care) totally destroyed by Blizzard's hunger for money, and now KotOR universe gives symptoms as well? Masterpiece narrations traded for who knows what. At least ToR has fantastic narration, but this scriptwriting disease still comes right at heart - plot. And heart of KotOR plot is Revan. Why not create KotOR 3 and tie all loose ends, kill Revan, but only as a playable or enemy character and make him a character of some importance in ToR? One, that cannot be touched, around whom plot no longer rotates, but leave him ALIVE and not miserably defeated for God's sake. Or don't even let him appear in ToR at all.

 

I can protest all I want and nothing will change, and my Sith Sorcerer will see the end of her journey, but I doubt that I want to start any other class, or even play this game in the future. The game is awesome, but forgive such piece of crap and enjoy it again I just cannot. No big tragedy in life, but, undoubtedly, a 'control shot' at my past, at the things I love. Some phrase like "New generations come, new heroes and villians arise" is an excuse that just won't suffice in such cases. That is probably all. God, I am just so happy that I know english and can write to such place as an official forum, right where it belongs. Lots of rambling in the end, sorry. Thank you for your attention. And I hope there will be more thoughts on this matter, not only mine pretending-to-be-deleted new thread.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Windhealer

[Foxfirega]

I think having this much attachment to a character is a bit unhealthy, to be honest, and have to wonder if it's really worth it to go this ballistic over something like this.

 

I also sincerely disagree that the group participating in this would classify themselves as 'pathetic' given all of the plot armor they have going for them collectively, and wonder if you got the entire message behind KotOR2 of Sith (and Jedi) just being regular people with power. :U

 

Still, if you feel strongly enough it's likely to kill your future enjoyment of the game, that's your decision. I don't really want to suggest your opinion is wrong (as it is your subjective opinion, after all), but perhaps it could use some review. This is clearly something you're worked up over.

[Tommyjc]

Hi there, I just don't where can I write this, so I created a new thread and apologize for a whole bunch of thoughts, but Revan in a simple Flashpoint, defeated by 4 pathetic creatures...? Well, that was a shock, the only unexpected and stupid thing, created by BioWare, in my opinion. Honestly, I did not even consider the possibility of such crap, not from BioWare! Yesterday there was a joke of mine about "as long as we won't have to raid Revan etc., this game is just fantastic". And today I go my first time to The Foundry only to see this horror come to life with my own eyes on my own display.

 

To avoid my long depressed rambling, I will only say, that I strongly believe iconic characters must not be raided, what kind of madness is that?! What were they created for then? To be killed of or defeated like weaklings in some MMO? Who is next on the list? The embodiment of the Force itself?! A simple game you can say, no need to react like that, not real, just 01010101 etc. Well, firstly, not as simple as one can think. Secondly, my hobby is scriptwriting, so tell me how am I supposed to react to such, sorry, sh*t?! Of course, Revan, and any character for that matter, is not needed to get nice investment from thousands of gamers, who probably don't even know or care who Revan is. Give them virtual stuff to mindlessly kill and they will pay, spending their life on pushing buttons for the sole purpose of pushing it. It has "lets go Blizzard way" written all over it. What kind of plot-killing plague is that anyway? First Warcraft universe (the first one I know of anyway, or care) totally destroyed by Blizzard's hunger for money, and now KotOR universe gives symptoms as well? Masterpiece narrations traded for who knows what. At least ToR has fantastic narration, but this scriptwriting disease still comes right at heart - plot. And heart of KotOR plot is Revan. Why not create KotOR 3 and tie all loose ends, kill Revan, but only as a playable or enemy character and make him a character of some importance in ToR? One, that cannot be touched, around whom plot no longer rotates, but leave him ALIVE and not miserably defeated for God's sake. Or don't even let him appear in ToR at all.

 

I can protest all I want and nothing will change, and my Sith Sorcerer will see the end of her journey, but I doubt that I want to start any other class, or even play this game in the future. The game is awesome, but forgive such piece of crap and enjoy it again I just cannot. No big tragedy in life, but, undoubtedly, a 'control shot' at my past, at the things I love. Some phrase like "New generations come, new heroes and villians arise" is an excuse that just won't suffice in such cases. That is probably all. God, I am just so happy that I know english and can write to such place as an official forum, right where it belongs. Lots of rambling in the end, sorry. Thank you for your attention. And I hope there will be more thoughts on this matter, not only mine pretending-to-be-deleted new thread.

 

Ignore the rager below you, you're right, they did an awful job writing Revan into this. I almost don't believe it was done by bioware, I know it can't be by the same ones who did KOTOR. It was a pathetic storyline, a weak ending, and a bad way to try and make your char feel stronger, they've been extremely unfaithful to their kotor fans, in many ways.

[Buttered]

funny side note, the revan in swtor is almost identical to my kotor revan neat huh!

[darthgroond]

They can do whatver they want with Revan as far as I'm concerned. He was Bioware's baby so it's up to them to decide how to end it. We've just been lucky enough to be allowed along for the ride for some quality gaming during his life span.

 

No point getting stressed about it though. I'd imagine that if Bioware really wanted to do more with the character then they could just retcon it all. I also think that somewhere down the line, they won't be able to help themselves. On this day, KOTOR 3 will be born.

[Riazakk]

I still have my doubts that the Revans dead. I say this because

 

 

#1 Biowares not that sloppy *cough* Dragon age II doesn't count *cough*

 

#2 Despite the ":( malak reference" we don't actually SEE him die, he just sort of vanishes in a ball of lightning

 

#3 IMO Revan, (at least the Revan I remember playing) would have a Plan B for that awkward moment when four randoms come in, and f**k up his s**t.

 

--- Mind you i keep hearing this argument that the characters doing this ARENT nobody and that they are supposed to be powerful. BUT... These characters are fresh out of ACT I when this s**t goes down, and they are going up against the man who has.

 

- Dispatched dark jedi on a daily basis (how many times did you get jumped in kotor by malaks goons?)

 

- Successfully 1v1ed the dark lord of the sith (malak), and come out unscathed

 

- Taken on ARMIES of foes without breaking a sweat (mandalorian wars)

 

(post KOTOR)

 

- Disintegrated a member of the dark council that was able to easily best Scourge + the Exile when the two of them teamed up on her (lord Nihrus [sp])

 

- Knocked the emperor flat on his ***

 

- Almost KILLED THE EMPEROR (had scourge not betrayed him)

 

so yeah saying that Revan got outplayed by four exceptional imperials is somewhat of a joke.

 

I mean, Either Revan was extremely weak after mind dueling with the emperor for 200+ years OR he saw things going south, and then **** via lightning... somehow...

 

But as I said earlier, aside from once certain 2011 release that will not be mentioned again, bio wares not that stupid, they aren't going to just throw away the character that (realistically) is responsible for putting their company at the head of the food chain when it comes to making RPG's. There has just been too much buildup over the various kotor games, and too much fanservice in tor for them to just toss out this character on a level 30 flashpoint.

 

I mean, I'm not gonna QQ and quit if they really did decide to do that, but i will be so shocked about it that i'll eat my own shorts over it.

 

And on a side note...

 

My prediction

=========

 

Revans story will pick up again during an expansion pack whose plot will consist of the emporer finally getting his wish of starting war #2. and either

 

1) It will be Revan leading the republic vs the emperor leading the empire in a fight to the death

 

OR

 

2) It will be Revan leading the republic, and the dark council leading the empire vs the emperor (who probably wants to do another crazy, kill everything to gain power ritual... again)

 

[KylonOrina]

Hate to spoil part of your theory but

 

The Emperor is dead. The Jedi Knight kills him

 

[Riazakk]

And as much as I dislike contradicting people...

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the Jedi Knight killed a part of the emperor and or one of his bodys/forms. at least this is what i've been told by my friend who rolled JK.

 

Also

 

"Eventually, a lone Jedi Knight began to gain the individual attention of the Emperor. After defeating Darth Angral aboard the Super Weapon, the Desolator, the Jedi Knight was confronted by the Emperor. The Emperor had taken control of the Jedi's Padawan, Kira Carsen, who was a Child of the Emperor and attempted to kill the lone Jedi. However, the Knight proved to be more powerful than expected, leaving the Emperor no choice but to destroy the Desolator through Kira. Kira, however, was able to overcome his will, cutting their link. The Knight and the Padawan escaped.

 

The Emperor was thought to have been destroyed after a seemingly fatal duel with the Knight. In reality, he had possessed a new avatar to replace the one lost on Voss. It was this facade that the Jedi Knight killed. This was confirmed by a holomail message sent by the Emperor's Hand to the Sith Warrior. " - Wookipedia -- not really valid sources so please correct me if i'm wrong

 

 

This is another character I doubt will be killed off so easily. Too much hype.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Riazakk

[Windhealer]

I think having this much attachment to a character is a bit unhealthy, to be honest, and have to wonder if it's really worth it to go this ballistic over something like this.

It was just something I needed to write to pacify myself Revan himself represents KotOR, so defeating/killing him is basically killing those games, and I do really like them. Why not just leave him out of this MMO anyway? Just mention him. That's what I am mostly concerned about. "Secrets of Revan revealed"...well, not the way they should be, in my opinion.

Ignore the rager below you, you're right, they did an awful job writing Revan into this. I almost don't believe it was done by bioware, I know it can't be by the same ones who did KOTOR. It was a pathetic storyline, a weak ending, and a bad way to try and make your char feel stronger, they've been extremely unfaithful to their kotor fans, in many ways.

I like my character much, but I don't really care what happens to it after...well after something happens at least Revan didn't die maybe so BioWare is still number 1 developer in my list, though a "seed of disappointment" was planted.

They can do whatver they want with Revan as far as I'm concerned. He was Bioware's baby so it's up to them to decide how to end it. We've just been lucky enough to be allowed along for the ride for some quality gaming during his life span.

 

No point getting stressed about it though. I'd imagine that if Bioware really wanted to do more with the character then they could just retcon it all. I also think that somewhere down the line, they won't be able to help themselves. On this day, KOTOR 3 will be born.

The funny thing is, I also had my script for KotOR 3 few years ago. Of course, it wasn't developed as some detailed plot etc., not much time and really no point in it, because BioWare will use their own. But there were some key moments. There was mysterious Sith capital (didn't know about Dromund Kaas), your character is a sith acolyte on imperial training facility ship, there was sort of Dark Council with complex hierarchy etc., won't go into details, doesn't really matter. And I buy ToR, and I see it in here! So nice to see that, in some way, I think alike with the developers, even it all happens 300 hundred years after and then this Foundry, battling Revan and defeating him...well, that they can do whatever they want of course, but they are creators, don't they feel some responsibility for their characters?

On this day, KOTOR 3 will be born. - I hope it will be

 

 

P.S. I don't really like Revan's voice, nor his face suits him not a big deal, takes time to get used to. Should have left him in the mask I think. But it would be inappropriate to include him, yet again leave with some mystery.

[Foxfirega]

well, that they can do whatever they want of course, but they are creators, don't they feel some responsibility for their characters?

 

They gave him a definitive ending that, previously, had been robbed of them. To be perfectly honest here, fans would have complained in some fashion or another no matter how they decided to write the ending of his story. Rather then leave it ambiguous (which some may have preferred, but others would post countless questions about anyway), they worked it into the new story they wanted to tell.

 

KotOR and KotOR2 left no real, hard ending for either of it's main characters. In the second, there really wasn't that much time before they ran out of license to do so (and which is why the ending of the game was rushed, and so much was left unfinished). I think Revan and the Exile both deserved something more then a credit roll and "And they were never seen again."

 

The Exile got her ending in the novel about Revan leading up to TOR. Probably not the best, but in examination both her and Revan were never anything more then tragic heroes - and as the protagonist, those kinds of characters very rarely outlive the ending of their own stories. The people around them generally don't fare well, either.

 

"To all good things must come an end." Thankfully, however, the end of one thing can become the beginning of a new story.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

Ignore the rager below you, you're right, they did an awful job writing Revan into this. I almost don't believe it was done by bioware, I know it can't be by the same ones who did KOTOR. It was a pathetic storyline, a weak ending, and a bad way to try and make your char feel stronger, they've been extremely unfaithful to their kotor fans, in many ways.

 

Actually, in this game, your char is one of the best [insert class here] in the galaxy. It seems logic on Bioware's side. From ours, it's a ballistic thought. Just remember. YOUR character is, in their own storyline, better than the other players, or the other players don't exist.

 

I was disappointed when I found out I couldnt get Revans Mask. Or hits lightsaber

[Bird_of_Thunder]

Hate to spoil part of your theory but

 

The Emperor is dead. The Jedi Knight kills him

 

No. The Jedi BELIEVES he killed the Emperor, but the Emperor is still alive. It's common Jedi arrogance

[Foxfirega]

No. The Jedi BELIEVES he killed the Emperor, but the Emperor is still alive. It's common Jedi arrogance

 

 

IIRC, doesn't the Sith Warrior get a note stating the Emperor is recovering after that, as well?

 

[darthgroond]

but they are creators, don't they feel some responsibility for their characters?

 

I'm sure they do. Maybe they just wanted to mess with us all a bit. I too like a bit of a writing session. I'm actually writing a novel myself, based around the Old Republic era. I'm using Visas Marr as a major character. I know a lot of people will roll their eyes at more fan fiction but I'm doing it for me.

 

Anyways, to my point. I've been thinking about a few twists and turns to add during my story, about a young Padawan with 'special weapons skills' (I go into more depth than that, obviously) and I've had a few ideas. However, after spending a bit of time thinking it over, even though I'm happy with the direction I've chosen, I've realised that any prospective reader would probably be quite annoyed by the choices I've made. I'm still happy with it though, as it was always my intent to go that way with it. Maybe they had this idea all along. I write for myself first and foremost. If I'm not happy writing something, then it won't reach it's potential in my mind. We don't know what they intended with Revan but if this was how they saw it all ending, then fair play to them, in my opinion, for sticking to their guns and going with the risky approach, however badly it may be recieved by some.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

I still have my doubts that the Revans dead. I say this because

 

 

#1 Biowares not that sloppy *cough* Dragon age II doesn't count *cough*

 

#2 Despite the ":( malak reference" we don't actually SEE him die, he just sort of vanishes in a ball of lightning

 

#3 IMO Revan, (at least the Revan I remember playing) would have a Plan B for that awkward moment when four randoms come in, and f**k up his s**t.

 

--- Mind you i keep hearing this argument that the characters doing this ARENT nobody and that they are supposed to be powerful. BUT... These characters are fresh out of ACT I when this s**t goes down, and they are going up against the man who has.

 

- Dispatched dark jedi on a daily basis (how many times did you get jumped in kotor by malaks goons?)

 

- Successfully 1v1ed the dark lord of the sith (malak), and come out unscathed

 

- Taken on ARMIES of foes without breaking a sweat (mandalorian wars)

 

(post KOTOR)

 

- Disintegrated a member of the dark council that was able to easily best Scourge + the Exile when the two of them teamed up on her (lord Nihrus [sp])

 

- Knocked the emperor flat on his ***

 

- Almost KILLED THE EMPEROR (had scourge not betrayed him)

 

so yeah saying that Revan got outplayed by four exceptional imperials is somewhat of a joke.

 

I mean, Either Revan was extremely weak after mind dueling with the emperor for 200+ years OR he saw things going south, and then **** via lightning... somehow...

 

But as I said earlier, aside from once certain 2011 release that will not be mentioned again, bio wares not that stupid, they aren't going to just throw away the character that (realistically) is responsible for putting their company at the head of the food chain when it comes to making RPG's. There has just been too much buildup over the various kotor games, and too much fanservice in tor for them to just toss out this character on a level 30 flashpoint.

 

I mean, I'm not gonna QQ and quit if they really did decide to do that, but i will be so shocked about it that i'll eat my own shorts over it.

 

And on a side note...

 

My prediction

=========

 

Revans story will pick up again during an expansion pack whose plot will consist of the emporer finally getting his wish of starting war #2. and either

 

1) It will be Revan leading the republic vs the emperor leading the empire in a fight to the death

 

OR

 

2) It will be Revan leading the republic, and the dark council leading the empire vs the emperor (who probably wants to do another crazy, kill everything to gain power ritual... again)

 

Maybe Revan will return to the Empire and lead us, though that's probably a big fat no. I like the idea of two enemies coming together to destroy a great threat to their galaxy.

 

My Xpac prediction:

 

Revan will lead the Republic in to battle ALONGSIDE Malgus and the Empire. The Emperor will flee after seeing an uprising, fearing for his life. The Empire enlists the Republics aid in defeating the Emperor and his madness. Malgus, by vote in the Empire, ake control and assist the players and Revan in defeating the Emperor.

 

Tell me if you like it

[Bird_of_Thunder]

IIRC, doesn't the Sith Warrior get a note stating the Emperor is recovering after that, as well?

 

Yeah. But I never check my mail anymore. To many people begging me to join their guilds. They want at least ONE lvl 50 there

 

So I'm not sure if it got sent to me

[Rayla_Felana]

The KotOR and Revan fans have been given far more than the KotOR II and Exile fans will ever get, Revan still has his ending to come as far as we know, You should be thankful for what BioWare and Drew has given you, we (Exile fans) just got a giant middle finger to our face and BYE! you got an entire novel and TWO flashpoints for Revan.

[StarMagus]

You can believe everything you get in an email, like the email you receive that states that there is Hutt lord trapped on Hoth, that if you would wire him 20,000 credits for a ticket off the planet he will be happy to give you 2 million credits when he gets back to his palace.

[StarMagus]

The KotOR and Revan fans have been given far more than the KotOR II and Exile fans will ever get, Revan still has his ending to come as far as we know, You should be thankful for what BioWare and Drew has given you, we (Exile fans) just got a giant middle finger to our face and BYE! you got an entire novel and TWO flashpoints for Revan.

 

I'm not sure why you are surprised considering this is a Bioware game and Bioware didn't do KOTR2, it was done by Obsidian Entertainment.

[Ontos]

Don't know what all the shouting and anger is about. Its Star Wars. That simple answer solves everything. Star Wars or as I call it Retcon Wars explains everything because it isn't explainable. Bang! Nothing about Star Wars is congruent, so it doesn't matter if you defeat the greatest warrior in the past because in my opinion thats supposed to be Vader because he actually kills the emperor

[KahnyaGnorc]

Why are 4 PCs from one game, each who shape the entire galaxy through their story-lines, "pathetic," compared to 1 PC from another game, who shaped the entire galaxy through his story-line? Why shouldn't 4 great heroes/villains of the galaxy be able to defeat 1 great hero/villain of the galaxy?

 

It sounds like the OP somehow ignores the entire game of TOR, which elevates your character as a great hero/villain, to adhere to the silly misconception that MMO PCs are somehow "weak" and "pathetic," just because they are PCs in an MMO, instead of a single-player game.

[Mithanx]

Revan is one of the most powerful Jedi's to ever exist, however YOUR character is also one of the most powerful Jedi to ever exist as well.

 

 

That being said, Revan actually dies? Lame.

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm not sure why you are surprised considering this is a Bioware game and Bioware didn't do KOTR2, it was done by Obsidian Entertainment.

 

If it was as petty a reason as that then my opinion of BioWare and Drew Karpyshyn would be seriously diminished, but i don't believe it is that, i think the truth of the matter is that they really didn't bother learning about the Exile, what she was, who she was and what had actually taken place in regards to her throughout KotOR 2.

 

She managed feats even more impressive then Revan's (saved the galaxy and all life in it multiple times, Rebuilt the infrastructure of the Republic and rebuilt the entire Jedi Order.) and was made a Jedi Master (Or an equivalent rank) half way through the story, yet Drew insists she was of Jedi Knight rank and that Revan was of Master rank, even though he was only just promoted to Jedi Knight at the end of their own game, much of what they state in 'Revan' and TOR is contradictory to what the canon tells us.

 

I just think they wanted to put Revan on an even higher pedestal than he already was just to make Vitiate seem even stronger and more powerful making him the main villain of the whole setting in the series.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[ponkodonko]

 

 

 

(post KOTOR)

 

 

- Knocked the emperor flat on his ***

 

- Almost KILLED THE EMPEROR (had scourge not betrayed him)

 

 

this is not true, have you even read the revan novel? revan was almost killed by the emperor, saved only be meetra throwing he lightsaber to block the emperors final blow, and revan was never ment to defeat the emperor that is why he never came close to beating him!

[Sir-Coffee]

Hate to spoil part of your theory but

 

The Emperor is dead. The Jedi Knight kills him

 

Hate to spoil your claim but

 

 

The Emperor is not dead. I played the Sith Warrior story. At the end, the guy tells you a Jedi(Or something, I can't remember all that well) attempted to kill him, and all they killed was the true voice of the emperor, and not the emperor himself.