Why do so many here take joy in wanting this game to fail?

[Vydor_HC]

I dont get it? Why are you all wishing this will go free to play and taking joy in its apparent "badness"? Personally when a new Star Wars game that ive been waiting ages for comes out im quite happy to play it and im hoping it never gets shut down. Secondly when you've invested your money in a subscription for a game why would you want it to fail?

 

Human nature.

[ColonelColt]

To me and others the voice-acting and story DID change things. Characters and NPCs that I actually have an interest in is something I felt was lacking from WoW especially(sweet lord, Blizz, Thrall's like the only character people seem to care about in Azeroth anymore).

 

TOR did evolve the genre, just not in ways that you personally seem to be able to appreciate. To me, the game is doing exactly what I wanted and expected: took the themepark mmo genre, and added some Mass Effect-like voice dialogue and choices to the game. May not seem much to you, but to others it's a step up. Dismiss it all you want for not 'changing' anything, but it was in fact an evolution of the genre.

 

There have been tons of new games that have come out in the last 7 years, it's just the vast majority weren't mmos. For any serious gamer, there have been lots of choices to choose from game-wise, you just have to have the initiative to try things other than mmos.

 

Voice acting adds... what to the game? Makes you care about NPCs? In what way? Is hearing them repeat the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over somehow more appealing then simply reading text, or skipping it all together? Will you still care about that quest giver on Balmorra in six months just because he was voiced?

 

Like it or not, voice acting doesn't add anything to the game. It's a novelty, a gimmick. It's as innovative as the kinect... scratch that, at least the kinect is moving us closer towards Holodecks.

[Cooltrip]

Voice acting adds... what to the game? Makes you care about NPCs? In what way? Is hearing them repeat the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over somehow more appealing then simply reading text, or skipping it all together? Will you still care about that quest giver on Balmorra in six months just because he was voiced?

 

Like it or not, voice acting doesn't add anything to the game. It's a novelty, a gimmick. It's as innovative as the kinect... scratch that, at least the kinect is moving us closer towards Holodecks.

 

As stated before, can't please some people. Haters gotta hate.

[ColonelColt]

I agree with you.

I will not invest my cash into an independent that will give me little return.

I want the most for my investment.

 

If SWTOR dies, the MMO landscape will be changed forever. And not in a good way IMO.

It will go the opposite direction that many of these 'optimist' believe it will.

 

No relationship...marriage, business, family ever thrives on being ignored to make a point. They all fall apart and eventually die and wither away.

 

We are in an evolution process of MMOs.

No one wants to be the rung in the ladder that gets squashed to make room for the next iteration of life, but it has to occur unfortunately.

 

Even if the landscape isn't shaped the way we want, even if big budget MMOs go out the window, that's still better then another decade of wow clones. All you're doing by staying is telling EA, and the entire industry, that you can make an amazing cashcow just by copying wow and using a big name franchise and studio. It's you who are the optimist to believe you can stay and change things from the inside. Developers don't look at individuals, just statistics. And if they see millions of people playing their game, they'll assume it's because the game is good, not because those people are trying to have it changed into something good.

[ColonelColt]

As stated before, can't please some people. Haters gotta hate.

 

It's not hating, it's just an objective look at it. What does voice acting add? The only things I ever see are "immersion". But that works in a one-shot singleplayer game. As I said in my previous post, will you care about that quest giver on Balmora in six months just because he was voiced? No. You will not. Companions may last longer but eventually, you'll stop caring about them to. They can't talk back, you can't hold meaningful conversations with them, they're NPCs. Voiced or not you're gonna stop caring about them down the road and what then? How did VA change the game then? It's a gimmick, a novelty, nothing more. It'll wear off quickly enough.

[Fireline]

ok, suggest one to me, I already asked but two people refused to

 

In skyrim my if I let my first companion die, he stays dead. for eg.

[dyves]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

In my viewpoint, those people are idiots and selfish bastards.

 

Idiots, because they lack the imagination to picture a situation that different styles of MMO's can be successful simultaneously. No, in their eyes the house first has to burn down before another can be built.

Idiots also because they can't see that upcoming MMO's like The Secret World, ArcheAGe, GW2, Firefall, Blade & Soul and Undead Labs' MMO will happen regardless if SWTOR is successful or not.

 

Selfish bastards, because they like a whole genre of MMO's that other people are enjoying to fail, just in the delusional hopes that there's a heightened chance an MMORPG they might actually enjoy will emerge 5 years later.

 

So, selfish, egotistical morons, that sums it up imo.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dyves

[kalexkhan]

To me and others the voice-acting and story DID change things. Characters and NPCs that I actually have an interest in is something I felt was lacking from WoW especially(sweet lord, Blizz, Thrall's like the only character people seem to care about in Azeroth anymore).

 

TOR did evolve the genre, just not in ways that you personally seem to be able to appreciate. To me, the game is doing exactly what I wanted and expected: took the themepark mmo genre, and added some Mass Effect-like voice dialogue and choices to the game. May not seem much to you, but to others it's a step up. Dismiss it all you want for not 'changing' anything, but it was in fact an evolution of the genre.

 

There have been tons of new games that have come out in the last 7 years, it's just the vast majority weren't mmos. For any serious gamer, there have been lots of choices to choose from game-wise, you just have to have the initiative to try things other than mmos.

 

I won't deny this at all. And I'm glad you appreciate that style of development. However, I am in the camp that thinks this was the wrong pony to back for biowares differentiators.

 

For me, story was cool for a while, now it's just fluff, and it has not compelled me at all to reroll Alts to check the story's out. I can't stomach the quest grind already, I might watch them on YouTube though! That's gotta count for something!

[Truga]

If by impact, you mean theft from their sources and addon developers then yeah they've had an impact. Other than that, the only impact I can see from WOW is boosting the Chinese economy and catering to the squeakiest wheel regardless of it's implications to game content or design.

 

I think both you and Colt need to calm down about WoW.

 

BW did copy blizzard, just like blizzard copied their predecessors. Nothing new to see here, people are still copying from Wolf3D when making 3D games, right? Right.

 

Now that we've established that part, can we move away from things missing from this game because "wow established a standard" and move onto things that are actually broken? Like, say, the completely unmovable (and customizable) UI. The one and only thing I can remember moving in the UI are the raid frames....

 

And no, I don't want any add-ons, I just want to move my UI elements and play the game like it is now, or, preferably, even further debugged. The content is fun for me, so are the stories. The quests are same old go there grind this come back as ever, but hey, that's MMO. This is never going to change. Heck, even a lot of single player RPGs work this way.

 

And no, you can't design an MMO without grind appearing in it in one form or another. Old school MMOs feature level grind, where you take months to level to max level. WoW type games feature gear grind, where you grind new equipment every month for months upon end. EVE features Sovereignty grind, where you need to grind enemy stations for weeks, before you can take their space (unless they fail cascade first).

 

Out of the two progression grinds (gear/levels), I personally prefer the level grind. Levels at least give new abilities every couple levels, gear just gives me new looks. That said, if the content is fun enough, I don't really mind staying at max level for a couple months before an expansion with either new abilities or a level cap increase hits. Along with new content, of course.

 

Edit: Oh and, I agree. I hope we don't see another decade of wow clones coming. One was enough. And frankly, the whole "choose your faction" at character creation is freaking dumb.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Truga

[XodoK]

I dont get it? Why are you all wishing this will go free to play and taking joy in its apparent "badness"? Personally when a new Star Wars game that ive been waiting ages for comes out im quite happy to play it and im hoping it never gets shut down. Secondly when you've invested your money in a subscription for a game why would you want it to fail?

 

OP, I have not read all of the replies, but I think I know what the issue is.

 

To answer your original question - I think people who want this game to fail are torn on the inside. They came to SWTOR from some other MMO they have been playing and enjoying, they "invested" (I use this term loosely) time in their characters there. They would rather work on only one MMO where they make their uber characters and not split their game time over multiple MMO projects. So they want one of the MMOs to fail so the choice will be made for them - they will have nothing else to do but go back to their original MMO they came from.

 

Also another reason might be that they want ALL other projects to fail so more people will be "forced" to play the MMO of their choice.

 

Just a guess.

[Fraxture]

Even if the landscape isn't shaped the way we want, even if big budget MMOs go out the window, that's still better then another decade of wow clones. All you're doing by staying is telling EA, and the entire industry, that you can make an amazing cashcow just by copying wow and using a big name franchise and studio. It's you who are the optimist to believe you can stay and change things from the inside. Developers don't look at individuals, just statistics. And if they see millions of people playing their game, they'll assume it's because the game is good, not because those people are trying to have it changed into something good.

 

No, it's you who are the optimist.

Thinking that we want to see things the way you do.

 

I personally do not, and will not.

 

Sorry this MMO isn't your cup of tea. But it is mine.

 

And that may grate on your nerves, but that is what co-existence is.

You have to the share the world with me, just like I have to share it with you.

 

Again, it's unfortunate I don't like the same things you do.

But I am willing to let you live your life with your likes and dislikes.

 

I am not trying to make you see things my way or cause a mass exodus from this game.

 

Also, there are many independent MMOs out there for you to play.

What is stopping you from going off to play those?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Fraxture

[kalexkhan]

Truer worders ... :D

 

If you are not a fan of wow, I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked the guy you quoted... What do you do in swtor that you can't do in wow circa 2007. Take me through a narrative please? I hate wow and wow fanbois bigtime, but everything in this game reeks of wow stink.

[ColonelColt]

In my viewpoint, those people are idiots and selfish bastards.

 

Idiots, because they lack the imagination to picture a situation that different styles of MMO's can be successful simultaneously. No, in their eyes the house first has to burn down before another can be built.

Idiots also because they can't see that upcoming MMO's like The Secret World, ArcheAGe, GW2, Firefall, Blade & Soul and Undead Labs' MMO will happen regardless if SWTOR is successful or not.

 

Selfish bastards, because they like a whole genre of MMO's that other people are enjoying to fail, just in the delusional hopes that there's a heightened chance an MMORPG they might actually enjoy will emerge 5 years later.

 

So, selfish, egotistical morons, that sums it up imo.

 

See, you're wrong. In the MMO genre there really can only be one big dog. The reason for this is because every dog is the exact bloody same, or terribly small. All the big MMOs with good budgets are all wow clones. But wow already exists, so either they dethrone wow or wow kills them. There is not enough room out there for two WoWs. Any other unique MMO is terribly small, not made by triple a dev's or released by triple a publishers. They all have small budgets, small teams, and little marketing. As such they are never amazingly successful.

 

So the only way to beat this trend is to have one of two things. Either triple a MMOs go out all together, or people stop making triple A wow clones and start making triple A unique MMOs.

[GraunKrynn]

I'm done arguing with you as you do not listen. I bought the game to try it, confirm my expectations. This doesn't help support TOR, remaining subbed supports TOR. As such leaving helps progress the industry, even if just a little. Don't bother responding unless you actually read and comprehend what I am saying, for if you repeat yourself again I wont even bother reading it.

 

I get what you're saying dude. You fail to comprehend the advice that I have given you and actually several other posters that you choose to ignore and disregard. Yes you're leaving because you want to send a message. You could have sent a bigger message by not contributing to this game breaking even or turning even a slight profit margin.

 

You said you got what you expected. You expected to throw money at a game that was going to copy a model you're tired of. You confirmed your expectations and now want other people to share your opinion so you can rally the gaming community and get better MMO's. I can comprehend everything you say. So please stop insulting my comprehension and reading intelligence.

 

I have been trying to give you advice as a fellow gamer, SW fan and consumer. If you really wanted to see the market take a step in the right direction you would've done your market research before making a purchase. You said you did. You said you got what you expected. Yet you're still up in arms about the game and want it to fail.

 

You fail to see that by simply buying a game you didn't help your own cause. You threw money at the game because "Eh I have $60 laying around might as well give it to a game that I expect to be a clone of a game that I'm tired of playing. I really wish developers would stop using this clone method and move forward." That makes no sense.

 

There are better ways to go about getting the market to change. You shouldn't have even made your initial investment. You shouldn't resub with your friends like you previously said you might. You should put that $60 and that possible $15-30 you're considering spending just so you can keep playing with your friends towards making an actual change to the industry.

 

Instead, you're blowing hot air on a game's general forums trying to get others to share your point of view while at the same time insulting their intelligence and demeaning them with condescending posts because only your point of view is the correct point of view.

 

You have repeatedly insulted me and my lack of comprehension and the way the market works while at the same time you've been guilty of exactly that. You failed to comprehend a single word I said when the whole time I was giving you advice on how to truly be effective with your desire to drive the market forward and bring actual change.

 

It starts with not making the initial purchase and doesn't involve bashing people in a forum setting full of others that actually enjoy the game and want it to succeed even if you think the game's success will further corrupt the MMO genre.

 

I've pointed out your own faulty logic using your own words and then you blame my reading comprehension. Your posts have shown over and over that you don't like this game, EA, or BioWare. You were once a fanboy hoping for the best and now you're trying to save all us other blind fanboys from making the same mistake because we're too dumb to decide whether or not this game is worth $15 a month.

 

I will be sticking the game out. I knew what this game was (look at my account date) long before I bought it. I was in beta. I was in early access. If I didn't like the game I wouldn't have bought it. I wouldn't be playing it. I wouldn't be trying to convince other people not to play it. Instead, I'd go find a game I'd rather play instead of spewing hatred towards other people over the internet. I will keep giving the developers feedback and watch the game evolve.

 

There's not a single other MMO out there that I'd rather sub to. It's ok that we don't share this opinion. I'm a consumer and I'm going to spend my money here. I've done my research. I've pretty much played through all of this game's content twice over. I still enjoy it. You don't. Don't resub. Stop wasting your time posting on the forums of a game that you want to fail because you're not convincing anybody of anything other than the fact that you have nothing better to do with your day/week/month/year/life.

 

TL;DR - I comprehend everything you said but you fail to comprehend any of my statements. Next time keep your money where your mouth is and don't contribute a penny to the cog of corporate greed.

[Kurnea]

You make it sound like massive multi-million dollar MMOs going extinct is a bad game. Plenty of great MMOs have been made in the past with budgets that were a fraction of what TOR had. The money bloat is one of the reasons the MMO genre has gone to hell.

 

Uh, there are mmos with small budgets that continue to be made, including both korean and indie mmos. Surprise surprise, though, when people talk about the 'mmo genre' they completely ignore such games and focus instead on the AAA titles. Perhaps instead of spending $60 to try out a game you already know you're not going to like, you can try out any number of smaller titles aching for attention and probably won't cost nearly as much?

 

Also, I love how you think we should all support the game just because jobs depend on it. Welcome to real life, welcome to economics. If you make something bad and that doesn't sell, you go under.

 

But so far this game and other 'WoW clones' haven't gone under. They've not had WoW's success, but they have done well enough to stay out of the red. Going after low-hanging fruit isn't a bad business model.

That's how it works. I hope it goes under because it's bad and stagnates the genre, whether that costs them their jobs or not is not my concern. Maybe they shouldn't have cloned wow for the hundredth time.

Maybe you shouldn't have bought a WoW clone and supported it, then? Instead of whining about a AAA title(and actively spending your money on it), try spending that same effort supporting smaller scale mmos.

[Gutrik]

IMO, if the game fails it serves BW right for being yet another developer who, rather than try to create something worthy of support, just copies the skinner-box approach perfected by someone else in order to make money. As a gamer I'm personally tired of being treated as a walking wallet by game developers. I'm tired of developers designing games--especially MMO's-- as money-printing machines and forgetting that before they get their money they should probably make a good game. Instead they fall back on IP's that are already established knowing they can fleece an existing fanbase and exploit their love of the property, and do so with little risk because fanboys are so skilled at self-deception.

 

The fanboys then fall all over themselves to defend a weak, poorly developed product because they can't bear to see thier beloved object of adoration tarnished. The developers know this in advance and depend on it. Rather than take great pains to release a polished product the developer then comes to think they can get away with releasing prematurely because of the forebearance of loyal fans. The know they can rely on those fans to do everything possible to marginalize those who have higher expectations as "entitled" or otherwise unreasonable.

 

And so we see the same mistake repeated over and over again, and the same apparently befuddled reaction by developers who just don't understand why so many people are unsubscribing to their product. Maybe, eventually, one of these triiple-A developers will stop looking at their MMO project purely as an investment with the potential to finance future game-development, and realize that first the MMO needs to be a worthwhile product in and of itself.

 

BW has built up some bad karma in my book. This once excellent company sold its soul to EA, and immediately started offering up purely capital-generating devices like DLC's; and then their first product designed solely as an EA subsidiary (DA2) wasn't even a complete product, and was obviously designed merely as a foundation for selling more DLC's.

 

Big game conglomerates like EA and Activision keep searching for more and more ways to make your games hobby something that you have to keep feeding money into, rather than the old way of simply putting out a good, complete game. EA brags to its investors about continually searching for methods of monetizing IP's, like DLC's. When EA announces something like TOR you can just see the dollar-signs in their eyes when they're doing it. The money is all they care about. They don't care about the quality of the product, whether they are giving good customer service, or whether they totally wreck the reputation of a once great developer like Bioware. All they care about is the bottom line.

 

So karma's a *****, and maybe EA will discover, as they did with Sims and Warhammer, that the MMO community is not so easily fleeced as the mass of WoW fanboys would lead them to believe.

 

Give us a finished product that works properly on release. Give us something that is truly differentiated rather than just being a re-skinned version of something else. And stop insulting our collective intelligence by asking us to subscribe to something that is so obviously still in development as, so far, every MMO released by EA has been.

 

I'm only sorry that a great company like Bioware has to be sullied by their unholy alliance to the EA mint.

 

Good post. I really hoped this game to be something, but sadly it was just a lousy copy of old and worn out ideas that other games do better. This game was made solely for one reason and that reason was to cash with Star Wars name.

[ColonelColt]

No, it's you who are the optimist.

Thinking that we want to see things the way you do.

 

I personally do not, and will not.

 

Sorry this MMO isn't your cup of tea. But it is mine.

 

And that may grate on your nerves, but that is what co-existence is.

You have to the share the world with me, just like I have to share it with you.

 

Again, it's unfortunate I don't like the same things you do.

But I am willing to let you live your life with your likes and dislikes.

 

I am not trying to make you see things my way or cause a mass exodus from this game.

 

Also, there are many independent MMOs out there for you to play.

What is stopping you from going off to play those?

 

See, you misunderstand. I'd have no problem sharing the world with you. I'd have no problem allowing you to enjoy the game you like. The thing is, though, that you enjoying the game you like PREVENTS me from enjoying the game I like. So because of the way the industry is, we can't co-exist. As long as you and your wow clones exist, I can never get a high quality, unique MMO. I will never see another MMO like SWG as long as the wow clones reign supreme. And this is why I fight.

 

Dramatics aside, it is true. If you could have your wow clone, and I could have my unique MMOs, that'd be amazing and perfect. But that just isn't the way the world works. It's either wow clones or unique games, and I for one would rather see wow clones die then to see unique games die.

[Bibdabob]

IMO, if the game fails it serves BW right for being yet another developer who, rather than try to create something worthy of support, just copies the skinner-box approach perfected by someone else in order to make money. As a gamer I'm personally tired of being treated as a walking wallet by game developers. I'm tired of developers designing games--especially MMO's-- as money-printing machines and forgetting that before they get their money they should probably make a good game. Instead they fall back on IP's that are already established knowing they can fleece an existing fanbase and exploit their love of the property, and do so with little risk because fanboys are so skilled at self-deception.

 

The fanboys then fall all over themselves to defend a weak, poorly developed product because they can't bear to see thier beloved object of adoration tarnished. The developers know this in advance and depend on it. Rather than take great pains to release a polished product the developer then comes to think they can get away with releasing prematurely because of the forebearance of loyal fans. The know they can rely on those fans to do everything possible to marginalize those who have higher expectations as "entitled" or otherwise unreasonable.

 

And so we see the same mistake repeated over and over again, and the same apparently befuddled reaction by developers who just don't understand why so many people are unsubscribing to their product. Maybe, eventually, one of these triiple-A developers will stop looking at their MMO project purely as an investment with the potential to finance future game-development, and realize that first the MMO needs to be a worthwhile product in and of itself.

 

BW has built up some bad karma in my book. This once excellent company sold its soul to EA, and immediately started offering up purely capital-generating devices like DLC's; and then their first product designed solely as an EA subsidiary (DA2) wasn't even a complete product, and was obviously designed merely as a foundation for selling more DLC's.

 

Big game conglomerates like EA and Activision keep searching for more and more ways to make your games hobby something that you have to keep feeding money into, rather than the old way of simply putting out a good, complete game. EA brags to its investors about continually searching for methods of monetizing IP's, like DLC's. When EA announces something like TOR you can just see the dollar-signs in their eyes when they're doing it. The money is all they care about. They don't care about the quality of the product, whether they are giving good customer service, or whether they totally wreck the reputation of a once great developer like Bioware. All they care about is the bottom line.

 

So karma's a *****, and maybe EA will discover, as they did with Sims and Warhammer, that the MMO community is not so easily fleeced as the mass of WoW fanboys would lead them to believe.

 

Give us a finished product that works properly on release. Give us something that is truly differentiated rather than just being a re-skinned version of something else. And stop insulting our collective intelligence by asking us to subscribe to something that is so obviously still in development as, so far, every MMO released by EA has been.

 

I'm only sorry that a great company like Bioware has to be sullied by their unholy alliance to the EA mint.

 

Good post. Unfortunately there are 10 million WOW players, myself included, who are desperate for a good MMO to go to. Well, until the next WoW release.

[Anomagnus]

It's not hating, it's just an objective look at it.

 

You can call it whatever you want, but its still hating. Nothing you have posted has given the impression that you aren't one of a very vocal minoirty that wants to see something fail just to prove you right.

 

And while you clearly don't like the large scale MMOs, clearly millions of others do, whether they play WoW, EQ2, CoH, Champions, STO, Rift, Aion, etc. This appears to be an issue for you, and despite your constant objections, you clearly hate the game, and want it to fail for no other reason than it makes you happy.

 

Thats a hater.

[ColonelColt]

Uh, there are mmos with small budgets that continue to be made, including both korean and indie mmos. Surprise surprise, though, when people talk about the 'mmo genre' they completely ignore such games and focus instead on the AAA titles. Perhaps instead of spending $60 to try out a game you already know you're not going to like, you can try out any number of smaller titles aching for attention and probably won't cost nearly as much?

 

 

 

But so far this game and other 'WoW clones' haven't gone under. They've not had WoW's success, but they have done well enough to stay out of the red. Going after low-hanging fruit isn't a bad business model.

 

Maybe you shouldn't have bought a WoW clone and supported it, then? Instead of whining about a AAA title(and actively spending your money on it), try spending that same effort supporting smaller scale mmos.

 

I support non-triple A mmos when they look interesting. But as long as wow clones rule, we'll never see the actual unique MMOs gain any real momentum.

 

Also, as I've said before, simply buying the game doesn't support it. Subbing to it is what supports it.

[inseeisyou]

Most are trolls. Some have legitimate complaints. Gotta take it all with a grain of salt and just drive on.

 

When the game is still flourishing in a year we'll have a celebration thread and fondly remember all these predictions of doom and gloom floating around at launch, I saved a few of the best thread URLs for some lolz on that day

Edited January 6, 2012 by inseeisyou

[Kunrelion]

Ok everyone who is hating this game because they didn't come out with some revolutionary design really needs to chill out. Ok so if you got everything you wanted right off the bat, then what could they come out with next? It's like a drawing, you start with a rough draft, then fine tune it into a masterpiece.

 

 

BW has failed on some aspects but they will fix these mistakes and this game will get better. It's all about trial and error.

[GraunKrynn]

Uh, there are mmos with small budgets that continue to be made, including both korean and indie mmos. Surprise surprise, though, when people talk about the 'mmo genre' they completely ignore such games and focus instead on the AAA titles. Perhaps instead of spending $60 to try out a game you already know you're not going to like, you can try out any number of smaller titles aching for attention and probably won't cost nearly as much?

 

 

 

But so far this game and other 'WoW clones' haven't gone under. They've not had WoW's success, but they have done well enough to stay out of the red. Going after low-hanging fruit isn't a bad business model.

 

Maybe you shouldn't have bought a WoW clone and supported it, then? Instead of whining about a AAA title(and actively spending your money on it), try spending that same effort supporting smaller scale mmos.

 

Wow someone else who gets it. Thank you.

[Fraxture]

See, you misunderstand. I'd have no problem sharing the world with you. I'd have no problem allowing you to enjoy the game you like. The thing is, though, that you enjoying the game you like PREVENTS me from enjoying the game I like. So because of the way the industry is, we can't co-exist. As long as you and your wow clones exist, I can never get a high quality, unique MMO. I will never see another MMO like SWG as long as the wow clones reign supreme. And this is why I fight.

 

Dramatics aside, it is true. If you could have your wow clone, and I could have my unique MMOs, that'd be amazing and perfect. But that just isn't the way the world works. It's either wow clones or unique games, and I for one would rather see wow clones die then to see unique games die.

 

But it isn't preventing you from the game you like. Like I said, there are many MMOs out there to cater to all.

The only difference is, that the majority of MMO players aren't in them.

If it's a very large community you want, then you have to wonder if you can eat your cake and have it to?

 

I don't agree with many of the independent MMOs play styles.

But I don't wish them death.

I can happily share the MMO community with them.

 

Why can't you?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Fraxture

[Razyr]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

This line of reasoning makes little, or no sense at all. In fact, you contradict yourself several times within the post, making this yet another example of someone holding a point of view to which they have applied little, or no thought whatsoever.

 

With only the points you've stated, let's review what you're expressing:

 

First you claim SWTOR represents stagnation, yet you freely admit the graphics are updated from the industry standard for mmo (new skin) and the addition of voice acting. How can something with new, improved features be stagnate? This line of reasoning is at odds with itself.

 

Next you claim that if something is successful and people judge it is worth their hard earned money, that this sends the wrong message to other developers. How does that make any sense at all? You want developers putting out games that fail and people won't spend their money on? I hope you never run a large company of any type, because the people relying on your judgement of how to sustain and grow a business will soon be in the unemployment line.

 

You wrap this post up by claiming that you are enjoying yourself. As a product which sole aim is being enjoyable entertainment, this would indicate it has met it's goal in regards to you as the consumer. I can't really comment on what I think about this, as it would violate the community rules. Needless to say, my opinion of this is not positive and somewhat derogatory towards you as a consumer and a person.

 

Moving on.

 

If you indicate the standard of this supposed "fail movement", then I think BioWare and the considerate consumers of this game are safe from you achieving any success. You might as well be actively advocating the auto industry sell cars that explode when people start them, because that would "push the auto industry forward". Well played.