Why do so many here take joy in wanting this game to fail?

[Bibdabob]

On a side note...I would LOVE to see a truelly original mmo lol. It just wont happen! I mean it's an entire genre of games...

 

It's the same as First Person Shooters or Sports games. If mmo forums are this bad when it comes to QQ about a lack of originality then I'd HATE to go and read Madden 2012 forums, or NHL 12 forums. Or how about Modern Warfare 3 forums lol.

 

I am really just unsure what people expect to happen to the genre. What is original these days? I mean...Bioware has brought ACTUAL storytelling and fully voiced cinematics to a genre that has been plagued by BORING or non-existent storytelling in favor of pointless grinds and meaningless character progression.

 

In a sense, people are right when they say SWTOR is a glorified single player game. I'm having more fun in SWTOR than I have in ANY single player game in the past decade. So they must have done something right! Not only that but if I want to I can play with my friends too.

 

Have you been hiding in a cave past ten years then?

[Blackwater]

I know you obviously know every mmo, but could you please point me to an mmo where my choices actually determine how my epic story ends? I've never heard of any such game, and the only offline games I can think of where this happens is stuff like silent hill... :/

 

There is no MMO where you decide how your story ends.

 

You know that guy you killed on Tattooine? Ya, you'll never see him again. Remember when you rerolled and let him live? SURPRISE you never see him again.

 

Choice means NOTHING in this game. They NEVER change the outcome of quests. You get two paths that lead to the same road.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Blackwater

[ColonelColt]

I know you obviously know every mmo, but could you please point me to an mmo where my choices actually determine how my epic story ends? I've never heard of any such game, and the only offline games I can think of where this happens is stuff like silent hill... :/

 

I've never heard of any such MMO either. I have yet to play an MMO where I have a choice in how the story unfolds. Maybe one day one will be released, but so far there hasn't ever been one that I'm aware of.

 

P.S. That was my subtle way to say choices in TOR don't effect your story.

[andretious]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

I love how so many people think wow set the standard for MMO. It was ultima online and then it was everquest 1. Some people show how young they are posting ignorance like this on a daily basis. WoW is a eq1 and ultima online rip off.

[Kourage]

 

• Blizzard Employees
  
• Haters
  
• Whiners
  

 

[DarthKhaos]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

Ahhh but the thing is most of the "predictions of doom" are based off of "features" they claim to be staples of MMO that made their name in World of Warcraft. Granted some were around before WoW but quite a few are mainly the Looking For Group.

 

Game forums generally suck when it comes to the community. People complain about pointless stuff. "I want this I want that I wish the game was more like that one." It doesn't help. I agree there are some bugs. some more game breaking than others however the fact that the game doesn't have LFG, Dual Spec or mods & macros at the moment isn't game breaking. One guy was complaining that it cost him 100K credits to respec. Seriously why is he respecing THAT much. Even in World of Warcraft with my Tank/DPS dual spec I didn't switch specs that much I just stayed in tank spec.

 

Bottom line people will complain period. They will ask for X because Y has it, get it then complain about how the game is being watered down and homogenized or that it sucks to have Y.

[OldBenSmokin]

I'm having more fun in SWTOR than I have in ANY single player game in the past decade.

 

/spits coffee

 

BUAAHAHAHAH

 

Oh... Guy...

[Blackwater]

• Blizzard Employees
  
• Haters
  
• Whiners
  

 

Yeah, you nailed us. All the people leaving SWTOR in droves are Blizzard employees. THE JIG IS UP!

[ColonelColt]

I love how so many people think wow set the standard for MMO. It was ultima online and then it was everquest 1. Some people show how young they are posting ignorance like this on a daily basis. WoW is a eq1 and ultima online rip off.

 

WoW did set the standard for the genre and you're a fool to think otherwise. It may have copied it's predecessors, but unlike it's predecessors it made MMOs mainstream. As such every single MMO after WoW was made to WoW's standards, not Ultima's, not Everquest's, but WoW's. What came first doesn't matter, what had the largest impact does.

[Conundrum-NSA]

I admit I would feel a great deal Schadenfreude directed at the most vile of the fanboys who attack everyone who isn't one of the faithful at every turn.

 

It would suck for the non-fanboys, but always look on the bright side.

 

Also, IMHO Bioware has demonstrated monumental amounts of hubris in the way they act towards their customers considering the state the game launched in and their communication with us. I wouldn't exactly be crying for them if the game crashes and burns.

 

I didn't start out feeling this way, I bought a CE..I assume people realize that means I had high hopes for the game.

 

I've already canceled, but if the game improves in my eyes in 6 months to a year...I *MAY* come back, but it also may be competing with Guild Wars 2 and Diablo 3 at that time.

[Blackwater]

I'm having more fun in SWTOR than I have in ANY single player game in the past decade. .

 

So the only single player you've played in the past decade was Dragon Age 2?

[Truga]

SWG is dead because it copied WoW. Before the CU, and especially before the NGE, SWG was one of the strongest MMOs of it's day. Unique MMOs can be just as popular as wow clones, moreso even. They just have to be done right. Copying wow doesn't ensure success, nor does not copying it. In the end your game has to be solid. But if your game is a wow clone and is solid, how's it different from wow? Why should I play it instead of wow? At least unique games that are solid are actually something new and exciting.

 

I agree. I'd rather this game be something more new, but it's new enough for me, seeing how I never played wow beyond the two trials I did. I never really could dig that crappy design blizzard adopted with warcraft 3. This game at least doesn't looks like my last night's supper, so I'll stay until I get bored of it.

[Kurnea]

For every post blindly qq'ing and just desperately raging on the game, there are 2-3 either praising or posting valid concerns and issues in a REASONABLE, UNBIASED, AND MATURE way. The latter are even more often than not self-admitted fanbois who absolutely hate that the game has so many problems, myself included.

 

Trust me, most don't WANT the game to fail. Many are like me and consider the game perfect with the exception of a few major but fairly isolated problems. We would love to see the game fixed and improved enough to keep a healthy subscriber base, but we're simply being realists. Please don't assume everyone's just hating to hate.

 

Not everyone, certainly. Plenty of people have posted constructive criticism on where they'd like the game to go, and look forward to those changes.

 

I have to question your ratio of constructive posts to blind rage posts, though. I'd say that currently, the ragers have more posts(though they could well be the same people posting over and over)

[Mandrath]

Mostly, people complain because they like to vent and in order to feel like their opinion matters, they post on forums.

 

As to the game being a WoW clone, that's a dynamic we'll be living with for a long time. Every game that has come out since 2004 has been accused of being a WoW clone. Whether you like it or not, you get compared to the top dog. WoW is as successful as it is because they used the technology available to appeal to the largest common denominator.

 

Until technology changes, you won't really see much innovation in games. How else are you going to create a game without making a button masher? Sure, the Wii and PS3 and Xbox have alternative input methods, but computers still use keyboards and game controllers. Until that changes, computer games are limited.

 

Personally, I think they've done a great job. Name one aspect of the game they could change without all the WoW fanboys crying about how it's inferior to WoW. Name one thing they could improve over WoW. Skill trees? Have to have them, and WoW didn't innovate those. PvP levels? WoW didn't innovate that one either, they stole it too.

 

All games are built off of the successes of those preceding them. You may think WoW is this great innovative game which changed the industry, but most of what you give them credit for was created in other games first, like UO, EverQuest, DAOC, etc...Remember, there were MMOs before 2004. Blizzard just tweaked them and improved their presentation.

[Fraxture]

On a side note...I would LOVE to see a truelly original mmo lol. It just wont happen! I mean it's an entire genre of games...

 

It's the same as First Person Shooters or Sports games. If mmo forums are this bad when it comes to QQ about a lack of originality then I'd HATE to go and read Madden 2012 forums, or NHL 12 forums. Or how about Modern Warfare 3 forums lol.

 

I am really just unsure what people expect to happen to the genre. What is original these days? I mean...Bioware has brought ACTUAL storytelling and fully voiced cinematics to a genre that has been plagued by BORING or non-existent storytelling in favor of pointless grinds and meaningless character progression.

 

In a sense, people are right when they say SWTOR is a glorified single player game. I'm having more fun in SWTOR than I have in ANY single player game in the past decade. So they must have done something right! Not only that but if I want to I can play with my friends too.

 

Eve...Mortal.

All very original.

Either not your cup of tea, or you are bored with them.

 

And they are in the minority.

 

Now as an investor. You fork over millions of dollars for an MMO that is going to be new, fresh, and unexplored...or you go with a sure thing...

 

And you can say we are creating this behavior.

But honestly, maybe this is what the majority of MMO players want.

 

If that saddens you, then it's time to either start your own MMO, invest in a company attempting to break the mold, or just give up for now and come back in a few years as the landscape changes.

 

I was a fanatical FPS gamer. But then things changed for the worse IMO.

I left, and said I would come back when they interest me again...I haven't been back so far.

I may in the future if things change to my style. But since the majority of players like FPS the way they are being cookie cutter produced currently, I am in the minority, and will have to accept that.

[amnie]

There is no MMO where you decide how your story ends.

 

You know that guy you killed on Tattooine? Ya, you'll never see him again. Remember when you rerolled and let him live? SURPRISE you never see him again.

 

Choice means NOTHING in this game. They NEVER change the outcome of quests. You get two paths that lead to the same road.

 

mh. well. I don't want to give any spoilers here, but there is some more or less 'drastic' change in one of the companions behavior towards you if you act a certain way...

 

 

my .point. is that you complain this is something the old republic lacks, and while I certainly would love to see it aswell, I haven't even seen it in single player games (not actually ground breaking, anyway) so why would I expect it in an mmo? I'm a realist, I guess, and can only hope poking people working for bioware on facebook daily helps.... (hey, you can try, right?)

[ColonelColt]

Eve...Mortal.

All very original.

Either not your cup of tea, or you are bored with them.

 

And they are in the minority.

 

Now as an investor. You fork over millions of dollars for an MMO that is going to be new, fresh, and unexplored...or you go with a sure thing...

 

And you can say we are creating this behavior.

But honestly, maybe this is what the majority of MMO players want.

 

If that saddens you, then it's time to either start your own MMO, invest in a company attempting to break the mold, or just give up for now and come back in a few years as the landscape changes.

 

I was a fanatical FPS gamer. But then things changed for the worse IMO.

I left, and said I would come back when they interest me again...I haven't been back so far.

I may in the future if things change to my style. But since the majority of players like FPS the way they are being cookie cutter produced currently, I am in the minority, and will have to accept that.

 

This is why some people want TOR to fail. If even TOR fails it'll show those investors that wow clones don't sell, so it's safer to gamble with a new and unique game then making a wow clone which is guaranteed to fail.

[stitchersflock]

Your statement would have credibility if it wasn't for the fact that SWTORs endgame can be cleared in one night, easily. Wow what a "hard core" game you have here

 

Did I say I cared a rat's behind about the end game and how easily it can or cannot be cleared? NOPE because I don't care about the end game whatsoever

[Fireline]

mh. well. I don't want to give any spoilers here, but there is some more or less 'drastic' change in one of the companions behavior towards you if you act a certain way...

 

 

my .point. is that you complain this is something the old republic lacks, and while I certainly would love to see it aswell, I haven't even seen it in single player games (not actually ground breaking, anyway) so why would I expect it in an mmo? I'm a realist, I guess, and can only hope poking people working for bioware on facebook daily helps.... (hey, you can try, right?)

 

You need to start playing better games.

[kalexkhan]

Who still camp checks when they want xp? grind mobs for hours and hours for a half of a bubble of a level?

 

That's how we did it in eq, and until game developers started thinking maybe we are tired of that, games kept giving us that. It took a new generation to try and challenge that convention, and we now quest grind for levels instead.

 

Maybe we are tired of quest grinds now? Put fancy makeup on them with cinema tics but it's still the same kill x, click this, go here quest we've dome for years now!

 

Someone will challenge this core compulsion loop sooner or later, and if they succeed they will be critically acclaimed, mark my word! It's a risk, but that's the only way to get the cookie to crumble.

 

Camp check. Think about it.

Edited January 6, 2012 by kalexkhan

[ColonelColt]

mh. well. I don't want to give any spoilers here, but there is some more or less 'drastic' change in one of the companions behavior towards you if you act a certain way...

 

 

my .point. is that you complain this is something the old republic lacks, and while I certainly would love to see it aswell, I haven't even seen it in single player games (not actually ground breaking, anyway) so why would I expect it in an mmo? I'm a realist, I guess, and can only hope poking people working for bioware on facebook daily helps.... (hey, you can try, right?)

 

When "choices" and "story" are your games only real selling points, they NEED to live up to the hype. TOR doesn't deliver in those fields, without those it's a carbon copy of WoW, minus some more common features. So yeah, I'd expect my choices to influence the story in more ways then a choice at the end determining if I get to see ending A or ending B.

[Cooltrip]

Because they're impatient and want everything NOW. All the WoWzers can't accept change, but forget how bad it sucked early on and didn't get to where it was totally overnight. Summation, give BioWare a chance to get this thing out the door awhile before piling on the hate.

[amnie]

You need to start playing better games.

 

ok, suggest one to me, I already asked but two people refused to

[ColonelColt]

Did I say I cared a rat's behind about the end game and how easily it can or cannot be cleared? NOPE because I don't care about the end game whatsoever

 

Just a question, but if you don't care about endgame... what will you be playing? Three months from now, six months, after you've gotten each class to lvl 50. What will you be doing? Sitting on the station rping? Nothing else? What exactly is your reason for paying 15 bucks a month if you're not going to play endgame content?

[stitchersflock]

WoW did set the standard for the genre and you're a fool to think otherwise. It may have copied it's predecessors, but unlike it's predecessors it made MMOs mainstream. As such every single MMO after WoW was made to WoW's standards, not Ultima's, not Everquest's, but WoW's. What came first doesn't matter, what had the largest impact does.

 

LMAO FAIL go back to WOW hoenst to god, if you think WOW is the be all, end all of gaming why are you here?