Gift Prices On GTN...Rant On!

[wingsofcover]

The grade 1 stuff is all junk as far as I'm concerned. They didn't sell for profit when I started, the cloth doesn't sell at all.

 

I farm grade 2 and up metals, of those I sell the blues semi-regularly for great justice/profit.

 

The rank 5 purple gifts I sell for 400%-600% or more profit. The blues I use or give to alts.

 

I think that as long as people are leveling UWT regularly market gift prices for rank 1 will be too low, and the rank 5 prices will be too high. Once things even out the market for everything but the highest grade gifts should dry up, and they should be available at competitive prices.

[x_Boots_x]

To the OP, 3 words.... 50 item limit

 

the 50 item limit forces me to slash stuff 50% or less from what I "should get" either that or have tons of stuff just sit and make me no money.

[Synica]

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 

 

That's funny, because my underworld trading tier 5 gift missions take half an hour. I am also doubtful about your costs.

 

I wonder if such a large disparity exists between different skills, or if someone is maybe just making up numbers as if they are hoping that other people won't notice.

 

What mission skill is it that has these marathon 2 and a half hour gift missions? Because underworld trading does not contain any mission that takes that long.

 

Not for cloth, not for metal, and certainly not for gifts.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, because Underworld Trading is the only crewskill in existence. Ever heard of Diplomacy?

 

Either way, I have a 70% market share of companion gifts on the Empire side of my server. The prices are mine to set as the benchmark as I please. Just be thankful I have a professional approach and method to setting my standard prices.

[Elear]

3)While you find "refuse gifts" to be useless, other players find your refuse to be their "treasure" and are more than willing to pay for it.

 

4)No, I can't buy out all of it. I've been saying it over and over...and over and over...Haven't you been reading? There's just too darn many.

 

5)Once again, you're mistaken demanded resource for a refusal. And yes, companion affection is demanded, as it influences crafting process.

 

 

Don't you see that your 4th point conflicts with 3rd and 5th ?

 

 

If there was demand, if people were willing to buy it, there wouldn't be any gifts on GTN, especialy underpriced. But there are. Meaning, even if there is demand, it's too small, and not all gifts will get sold. Supply is jut too great.

 

So you may either sell it below production cost and hope it'll be cheapest one and someone will buy it, or not sell it at all. There is also what you're doing, trying to set market prices to return profit, but you have to accept that people don't want to have bank full of gifts jut waiting for them to become valuable, and don't want to put them back on GTN every two days. They just want to be rid of them and get some money in return.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Elear
My bad, after all, you don't have to do anything.

[G_Vega]

I couldn't afford my speeder at lvl50 and thanks to people that think selling at a loss is a good idea I won't be able to make any money from the GTN with my chosen professions, so I guess I'll be using the lvl40 speeder for quite a while still.

 

Judging by the insane repair bills I probably won't be able to raid because one full repair is going to take away around 40% of the money I have now (40K repair bills are FUN) and yes, at lvl50 after buying my skills I only had a bit over 100k left which, judging by the rest of the guild, is the rule rather than the exception.

 

I can forget about ever making enough cash to buy my last inventory expansion or a 3rd Cargo Bay for my ship (200k and 400k respectively).

 

 

seriously?

 

I guess I can understand now why people took the easy road to credits.

[DervimNorth]

Don't you see that your 4th point conflicts with 3rd and 5th ?

 

 

If there was demand, if people were willing to buy it, there wouldn't be any gifts on GTN, especialy underpriced. But there are. Meaning, even if there is demand, it's too small, and not all gifts will get sold. Supply is jut too great.

 

So you may either sell it below production cost and hope it'll be cheapest one and someone will buy it, or not sell it at all. There is also what you're doing, trying to set market prices to return profit, but you have to accept that people don't want to have bank full of gifts jut waiting for them to become valuable, and don't want to put them back on GTN every two days. They just want to be rid of them and get some money in return.

 

No, it does not not contradicts itself. Why? Because somehow, I get all my junk sold, in spite of it ending up somewhere among the pages 10-15 (out of 40).

 

So no, it's not a supply-demand issue, but rather people being generally s...inefficient, for when it comes down to their own wealth.

 

As for me, well, I've made around 50k by selling my own and reselling other peoples gifts. Icing on a cake? SURE! However those money could be yours.

[Elear]

No, it does not not contradicts itself. Why? Because somehow, I get all my junk sold, in spite of it ending up somewhere among the pages 10-15 (out of 40).

Now that changes things, and makes one wonder why there are underpriced ones(as in, not bought yet) while yours get sold. Why would there be hundreds of gifts for 50 creds an people would till buy ines for 120?

 

Also, how many times you had to put again same gifts on GTN before they've sold with those prices? Above once, and there is reaon for people to cut their prices, saves time.

 

 

 

So no, it's not a supply-demand issue, but rather people being generally s...inefficient, for when it comes down to their own wealth.

 

As for me, well, I've made around 50k by selling my own and reselling other peoples gifts. Icing on a cake? SURE! However those money could be yours.

 

Overall, this thread appears as "OMG you're undercutting profitable prices", and what you've jut said is "You could make profit on gifts, and there is proof"

 

 

 

And yet, I dare to say that those people selling underpriced gifts make more money over time than you.

 

Yes, they may spend 10k on missions to get skillups, and then look at GTN, set lowest prices to ensure their gift will get sold before others, and get back only 5k.

But over time you're stalking GTN, comparing prices, buying underpriced ones and reselling, they're questing, doing pvp or space missions, and get their own profit.

 

Don't instantly assume that everyone wants to play economy.

Can they make money by selling gifts on GTN underpriced? Yes.

Can they make more money if they set higher prices? Probably yes.

Will it require more effort? Yes.

Does everyone want to bother with pulling as much profit from gifts as possible? No way.

 

 

 

Yes, you're right, they could make money on gifts, but they would have to put more work into it. And that's good enought reason to not do this. Because they can put this work to use somewhere else and make even more money.

[liquid_bailey]

i dont like to play the economy...havent since early days of EQ. i just want to sell something quickly and be rid of it..now if i have a rare item or a item that could bring a hefty sum, then ill put more time into selling it.

 

the green gifts i have...which is too many to count i will undercut you whiny market hoarders all day. i could care less if you buy and re-sell. i dont want to spend all day at the GTN...let me make my small amount of money and lvl my craft. money isnt a big deal to me since it comes so easy. i mean honestly i hear peeps are all broke, my highest toon is 28 and i have 375k. what am i going to do with that money...i upgrade my pcs here and there, but im still making money from slicing, and i use dipo for companion gains and some med stuff.

 

its funny to see some rage as much as they do.

[liquid_bailey]

actually had someone mail me in WoW complaining of me undercutting...simple reply was

 

AFFECTED....

[DervimNorth]

Now that changes things, and makes one wonder why there are underpriced ones(as in, not bought yet) while yours get sold. Why would there be hundreds of gifts for 50 creds an people would till buy ines for 120?

 

Also, how many times you had to put again same gifts on GTN before they've sold with those prices? Above once, and there is reaon for people to cut their prices, saves time.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, this thread appears as "OMG you're undercutting profitable prices", and what you've jut said is "You could make profit on gifts, and there is proof"

 

 

 

And yet, I dare to say that those people selling underpriced gifts make more money over time than you.

 

Yes, they may spend 10k on missions to get skillups, and then look at GTN, set lowest prices to ensure their gift will get sold before others, and get back only 5k.

But over time you're stalking GTN, comparing prices, buying underpriced ones and reselling, they're questing, doing pvp or space missions, and get their own profit.

 

Don't instantly assume that everyone wants to play economy.

Can they make money by selling gifts on GTN underpriced? Yes.

Can they make more money if they set higher prices? Probably yes.

Will it require more effort? Yes.

Does everyone want to bother with pulling as much profit from gifts as possible? No way.

 

 

 

Yes, you're right, they could make money on gifts, but they would have to put more work into it. And that's good enought reason to not do this. Because they can put this work to use somewhere else and make even more money.

 

 

I didn't waited much for mine to get sold. I've had, like 40 different grades and qualities of gifts auctioned and had eight of them sold within a couple of hours while I was questing and pvping, than I logged off.

 

This morning I logged in and found 32 successful sale messages in my mail box. Seemed pretty fast to me, at the time.

 

Sure thing, the rest of my auctioned stuff is UT metals and I'm profiting more off their sales than from gifts, but I'm not losing my money on the gifts either. I'm actually making some quick buck, which I really need right now, because I'm lvl 40 with new license plate, speeder and a munch of upgraded skills that I don't really use, but they still cost a small fortune to learn. THAT, and I've also bought some rare mats purple mods and armoring...

 

Oh, and I've already hit 400 mark on my Cyber and Scavenging, and I've just got to Hoth. So yeah, you are right, I'm not making more money, in fact I'm probably wasting more.

 

But you know what? In spite of all the upkeep, my credit balance still goes up, slowly but sturdy. And while you are right when you're saying that this thread is about,"OMG you could be making money," you're not entirely right. It's also about people not bothering to change the "default" prices and about very same people complaining about not having enough money.

 

You could say, this thread is about lots of people making lots of mistakes, in general. And if it helped at least someone to make just a bit more buck than they usually do or to lose less, than mission accomplished.

[ZingFreelancer]

Ok fellow UT traders, let's talk some business, about gift prices...And some common sense, while we're at it.

Rant off.

 

I need grade 2 metal, I check in my mission log and I see 2 rich gift mission, 1 abundant gift mission and 1 moderate gift mission and then 1 fabric mission, no UT metal missions.

 

"Fine" I say to myself, I'll do gift missions perhaps mission log will once again populate with metals. Upon return of my companion trio I receive 2 Republic / Imperial Memorabilia, 1 courting gift and one Military Equipment gift. UT Metal mission have refreshed, now I have one moderate and one abundant metal mission.

 

None of my current companions are found of said gifts, so what is my choices? I stack them in cargo hold for the time when I unlock a companion who likes said gifts. But being a slow progression player I am, my cargo hold become filled to the brim with useless gifts.

 

I end up putting them on GTN for low price in hope that someone picks them up. So far no luck.

[Bellaralo]

You will find that rank 3 and 4 gifts sell VERY well since they are not availble at vendor, and TH cannot change fragments out for those ranks.

 

Just a tip, but stick with those ranks and you will make some good credits.. if you price your stuff perfectly.

[Gformutorila]

You will find that rank 3 and 4 gifts sell VERY well since they are not availble at vendor, and TH cannot change fragments out for those ranks.

 

Just a tip, but stick with those ranks and you will make some good credits.. if you price your stuff perfectly.

 

I sell rank 3 gift for about 600 credits.

[TumblerSW]

As long as they sell gifts at a vendor the prices will be low on the GTN. It takes far less time to buy your gift and move on with a vendor than it does to buy it through GTN. The prices are low because a lot of people are selling and very few are buying.

 

Gift missions are also the shortest and least expensive missions to run so if someone is going to level up in UT they're going to run gift missions and probably have a ton of gifts they just want to get rid of.

 

I don't even both listing the gifts I don't want on the gtn, just sell them for credits at a vendor and be done with them. I'll have to check what prices lvl 5 gifts are going for.

[MareLooke]

I think it's rather silly to get all worked up over the economy in a game that hasn't been out for even a month yet. Give it time. As more people get 50, and start to min / max, they'll want that 10k affection with all their crew.

 

A lot of us at lvl50 are struggling to get around, so yes, it is as good a time to get worked up about the economy as any. Or at least about the lack of options to generate any meaningful amount of credits without being glued to the GTN.

 

A heroic run easily costs over 20k (more often 40k and up) in repairs (depending on the heroic, the experience the group has with it etc), and as many of them are horribly tuned (eg. piss easy until the last boss that then turns out to be undoable with your team so 0 credits back from the quests, no tokens etc, so a net loss basically)

 

The gifts would have been a nice way to make a little profit at least, or break even on those missions at the very least. Instead I have to scour the GTN for underpriced items etc that I can be fairly certain I can resell at higher prices but it seems there is very little that actually sells and even less that sells at a decent price (taking time/effort to acquire the item into account which ofc isn't an issue if all you do is buy/resell but obviously IS if you craft yourself).

[_Flin_]

In a mixed profit calculation it is better to sell below cost than not to sell at all. This is called a profit contribution.

 

Actually I can't believe anyone buys gifts from the GTN, though.

[MareLooke]

In a mixed profit calculation it is better to sell below cost than not to sell at all. This is called a profit contribution.

 

FWIW In my country it's forbidden to sell at a loss (this is to keep big corporations from killing small ones by selling at insanely low prices until the small corporation goes out of business and then racking up the prices again to compensate for the loss they made earlier and of course because they are now monopolists on that item so they can ask whatever they want).

 

A similar system ingame wouldn't be bad imo and at least protects people from their and others' stupidity.

 

Actually I can't believe anyone buys gifts from the GTN, though.

 

As stated elsewhere in the thread, once you go past a certain Affection level the gifts gotten from missions are the only ones that still give Affection.

Edited January 9, 2012 by MareLooke

[AtticusFinch]

You're missing the point. .

 

No, actually, you're missing the point. What he said was quite sensible and fits well with the average player's ambitions. Most aren't trying to corner the market in gifts but are simply trying to get what they can for the items for the smallest amount of hassle. There's leveling to be done, for Pete's sake!

 

Having said that, why not wait a month or two and allow the market a chance to mature? Right now the server economies are still developing. However, as more and more players level their mains to 50, things will probably settle down and players will become a bit more sensible regarding profit and reward.

 

Just remember, it's a game.

[HeavyBB]

You're still going on and on without of reading the thread, aren't you? Dude, seriously, just stop.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying gifts should be charged for a mount of creds. However, I am trying to say that people should be charging, at least, the price of the mission, not below it. Which is, in fact, stupid.

 

And no, game design is not at fault this time around, "stupid peoples" are. And as for your "bang for the buck" argument, well, the reason is quite simple. At some point, low grade gifts simply stop providing any affection. In other words you outgrow them and begin to gain big, fat ZERO affection from them, unless you're using high grade gifts.

 

 

Ok, u are complaining that pepole er placing things on GTC that is lower than the price for making item. this screws with ur moneymaking scheme.

 

ill try to spoonfeed this to u.

 

when u have to many gifts. also called, to high supply. pepole will try to sell this for whatever they get, cuse the alternative for them, not selling at all. atleast gives them some isk.

 

so, if im left with a choice of loosing 200 isk, or 2000 isk. ill loose the 200 and count my self lucky. even if this scrwes with UR money making scheme.

 

if the demand was higher than supply. someone would buy all the wares that have been put out that is to low and relist them for proffit.

[Dalkore]

ok, for pepole not comming from Kitty online. this is called market pvp.

 

if someone is undercutting you. screw them over. buy evrything they put out. relist at higer profit. then u make iskies from all items, and they loose isk.

 

if the market is in a state that there is not high enough demand to buy all the gifts that are availble then this will not work, and the price of 95 isk is reasonbel. cuse even with the ****ed up market mechanic in this game. there is some room for supply and demand.

 

ISK? This is SWTOR not Eve (ewwww).

[Raani]

Actually I can't believe anyone buys gifts from the GTN, though.

 

Are you serious?

 

Let's say I want a grade 5 Weapon gift. My options are to either do a mission which costs 2K and will return a random gift (so I have no guarantees that I'll actually get a Weapon), or pay chump change at the AH for the specific thing I want.

 

Of course, I sell my own unwanted gifts for 6-10K because I know that there is always someone out there who wants extra affection NOW and will buy all gifts of a particular type. He might grumble when he gets to mine, but based on the success I've had with Courting gifts, nothing can come between a nerd and the pixels he covets. Bad jokes aside, some people just want to pay it forward and have maxed companions fast because there's definitely a market for augment gear and epic metals.

 

That said, I only deal in grade 3 and up, mostly grade 5. Since you can't look up an item directly, and since gifts are listed under "Miscellaneous," I think a lot of people don't even bother looking for them early on, especially that there is a vendor. After the vendor gifts don't cut it anymore, they probably start asking or browse every category to see what it includes.

 

I completely agree with you, OP, that it makes no sense to sell things for less than the mission cost, but between the horrible GTN interface and stupid ideas people have, it's not always a battle you can win. This market is unprofitable on many servers; others, though, can be worked to your advantage.

[_Flin_]

Of course, I sell my own unwanted gifts for 6-10K because I know that there is always someone out there who wants extra affection NOW and will buy all gifts of a particular type. He might grumble when he gets to mine, but based on the success I've had with Courting gifts, nothing can come between a nerd and the pixels he covets.

 

Need to try that, then. Selling the nerd-equivalent to crushed rhino horns. hehe.

[_Flin_]

FWIW In my country it's forbidden to sell at a loss (this is to keep big corporations from killing small ones by selling at insanely low prices until the small corporation goes out of business and then racking up the prices again to compensate for the loss they made earlier and of course because they are now monopolists on that item so they can ask whatever they want).

 

Well, that's probably some kind of anti-trust or competition law.

 

Can't imagine though that in your country a supermarket is not allowed to lower the price for yoghurt that is close to it's best-before date and has to throw it away. So in these cases you can lower the price in the books and then sell it above book value.

 

So, as my Twi'lek Majordomo and Lawyer Pip Moretuna tells me, discounting the opportunity cost for the increasingly expensive storage (over the next 2 years) of all those useless gifts (that prevent me to store my primary trade objects) to current value is totally legally sound and therefore I am allowed to devalue those gifts under Nar Shaddaa trade law article 1280 b, and sell it for basically whatever I want to.

[Ironcasket]

I haven't even visited the GTN so far, but I have to say that I don't feel the game has bad mechanics because items are cheap because:

 

1: There are so many thousand people on your server all levelling their own professions, therefore the GTN will naturally be saturated in surplus items.

 

2: In order for you to sell your items that you do not require (taking up to much space, no profitable use, cash flow etc...) you will be required to compete with other tradesman.

 

3: A high competition between seller = good news for purchasers, as sales people have to offer reduction or suffer cash flow issues.

 

4: If you wish to make money, find out what items are attracting a higher mark-up and re-trade accordingly. Then buy the cheap items you could use in your old profession.

 

5: bulk buying cheaper items in order to resell at higher values is a risky business, as it offers positive reinforcement that they are sell at the correct price in order to improve cash flow. This will then reinforce the cheap prices, as you can't plausibly buy every item that everyone else is selling cheap as you may soon find you will have surplus stock that is worth even less than you procured in for in the first place.

 

6: Wait for your server to stabilise and predict that some people will re-trade to something else when they have more game experience.

 

7: I understand the feeling of frustration when you hit a level cap and expect to be able to afford the perk straight-away. However, persist with your goals and you will find it is publishable with a bit more effort and time.

 

8: When you level your alt, you will find that everything comes easier, as it has a nice lvl 50 butler serving him whatever his/her needs.

 

9: Some of the richest people I have met have been the most chilled out and not money focused as MMO's generically make you money with very little risk. It is however the human right to have freedom of choice that really screws things up.

 

Income - Expenditures = (+/-) total assets. If you can't control one, control the other

 

10 Wear sunscreen.

 

Note: I never buy anything from vendors, GTN or other people whilst levelling, as it is quite achievable to do so without this additional cost. Visiting/playing the AH game will slow your progression down which is counter productive to the reason you visited the GTN in the first place. Granted, it would make a few fights a lot easier if you were min/max'd, but gain another level and you can do it ok in Oxfam gear wearing your aunts ballroom slippers

 

Most important rule in the universe:

Income - Expenditures = (+/-) size of your wallet. If you can't control one, control the other

 

Selling things for really low prices is a market strategy called "lose leaders". It happens all the time in the market place. Most noticeable for myself (as I was young and had my first flat at the time) was the baked bean price war in the mid 90's where cans were selling for 1p a can!! with the maximum purchase of 6 cans per customer (come on, who is old enough to remember that?!! hehe). So is this a game imbalance that we are witnessing? My feeling is that it is not, it just needs to find it's feet and everyone needs to find their place in this new society.

 

If I ever want to earn some more money, I roll an alt. This helps me feel that the game is still fresh and I have new Q's to do, more companions to help me gather resources. OK, its not the quickest way to make money, but if you're not spending it and your having fun whilst making small top ups to your larger pot, then it is beneficial irrespective of your view point.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, didn't mean it to go on for so long!!

 

Hope this helps. and happy hunting

Edited January 11, 2012 by Ironcasket

[Fatespuppet]

I just use all of my gifts on my companions. I guess once I am at full affection I can sell them, but by then they will probably have added more companions.

 

As for people selling at a loss, this goes on in every game with an auction house or trade network. Some people are so focused on undercutting the market that they price items below the value you can get by selling to a vendor. I used to make very good and easy money on another mmo simply by buying under priced items and vendoring them.

 

I also do a daily check on purple quality items to see if anyone accidentally prices one wrong. Sometimes you find very rare items with prices missing a zero or two on the end.