The game isn't the problem

[Celestry]

You are forgetting a very simple thing. Excellence. Some people strive for it. myself included, i WANT to do my best, i WANT to push my class to the limit, get the best out of it. It is simply impossible to do so without some sort of feedback from the game (ie. damage meters and so on)

 

I am not saying you cant play the game without these, just saying that FOR ME it is alot less fun.

 

I want to play the game well also, but do not require these things to improve or play the game well. Plus, I realise how empty an accomplishment it is to be excellent in a game. I require a game to be fun, and enjoy MMO's because I can have fun with friends and other players. If you need game excellence in your life, fine. I have achieved excellence in many thing in RL, being good at a game rather than the best and having fun while getting there, is just fine for me.

[wigo]

Changes are made continuously that affect class abilities, talents, proc rates, the combat system, everything. Look at critical block shield in WOW for example. It is not a static world, it keeps changing.

 

 

Yep, and your asking for them to add to that list of stuff that get's added...half you people are crying about how long fixes are taking now, bugs that have been in since beta, but you want me to believe it's NO Big Deal to have to deal with extra stuff....Get your *** off your shoulders, step back, and find out how things work, not just here in this MMO or any other mmo, but in real companies that do business everyday.

 

I design equipment for a living....the core is the most important, it can make or break you. When you develope and design off of an untuned, unrefined core, you're just begging for extra work and more headaches. Give them a month or 2 at least to refine and tune...then start crying about what is not in-game.

 

People lilke you have no patience, you're part of the "I want it all and I want now" crowd.

Edited January 5, 2012 by wigo

[Rownee]

Target of Target was not released with WoW.

Neither was the integrated threat system.(Was 3rd party addon.)

See above.

Damage meter was also 3rd party.

Macros? Really? I've pretty sure there was a point in time that rogues could make a macro and just spam it and pull 10k dps at one point in time.

 

WoW was successful because it was polished and adhered to the masses. Not because of these addons.

 

I'm so sick of reading posts like this well WOW didnt have this on release wow didnt have that listen wow released 7 years ago SWTOR just came out and should have all these things, stop being a moron and understand that.

[wigo]

I'm so sick of reading posts like this well WOW didnt have this on release wow didnt have that listen wow released 7 years ago SWTOR just came out and should have all these things, stop being a moron and understand that.

 

So you really think everyting WoW added was a new idea....that nothing was held back from the release because it was not practical to to do so at release?? That it made more sense to wait, work out all the kinks in the game, then start refinfing and adding systems?

[Celestry]

I'm so sick of reading posts like this well WOW didnt have this on release wow didnt have that listen wow released 7 years ago SWTOR just came out and should have all these things, stop being a moron and understand that.

 

And you are a min/max gamer that either is or wants to be an elite gamer, that only wishes to team with like people. That is very clear now, and makes this entire thread make sense. In its current state SWTOR makes it very difficult to be a min/max gamer. Since this is the type of player you are, and you want to play this game, you are disappointed that BW has elected to leave these things out at this point. Because you think it should have these things, does not mean BW thinks it should have these things, as shown by them not being in the game. If BW thought they were important, they would be there, I suspect they elected to not include them. You see this as a failure by BW because you feel you can't min/max without them, and therefor the game is fail. It does not fit you personal play style or goals. So all in all this is just difference in oppinions and play styles.

[Dropadeuce]

Originally Posted by OorahDoc

Target of Target was not released with WoW.

Neither was the integrated threat system.(Was 3rd party addon.)

See above.

Damage meter was also 3rd party.

Macros? Really? I've pretty sure there was a point in time that rogues could make a macro and just spam it and pull 10k dps at one point in time.

 

WoW was successful because it was polished and adhered to the masses. Not because of these addons.

 

I'm so sick of reading posts like this well WOW didnt have this on release wow didnt have that listen wow released 7 years ago SWTOR just came out and should have all these things, stop being a moron and understand that.

 

My God, Rownee........

[GalacticKegger]

Eliminate add-ons from World of Warcraft and its end game raids and heroics would explode like horseflies in a bug zapper. Merely witnessing the ensuing rage drama alone could be worth the price of admission. In fact, we're getting sneak previews of precisely that in many of these discussions. I agree completely with OP's take on SWTOR - the game is not the problem. Edited January 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Ambrogino]

Your arguement is "WoW has this, SWTOR doesn't so I am going to RAGGGGGEEEE!" that is a better comparison (iPhone to non iPhone) than yours.

 

 

Did you PLAY Everquest? WoW was a child's playground compared to it. WoW was drastically easier, allowed soloing, had instances, flight points, early/easy access to mounts, better guild structure, etc. It also lacked a lot of good things about EQ - more diverse environments, socializing, a true RP server, player reliance on other players, more NPC cities, individual factions.

 

 

Except it is the same story for every class except in various small places.

 

First off "Chet," I never did "RAGGGGGEEEE!," but feel they should not be given a free pass while they charge a premuim. Unless you enjoy paying for an unfinished product.

 

Second, so your saying WoW was a better designed product for their base than their competitors?

 

Third, your class story is different but everyone else experiences the same quests otherwise? Hmm, sounds like what I just said...

 

IMO is sounds as if your upset the EQ isn't getting their due...

[kalexkhan]

Wow had a specific strategy that made up for it's shortcomings when it launched. Their strategy was to make a better game than eq by altering the standards it set with accessibility in mind.

 

It was a huge risk at the time cause the eq core was the hardest of the hard core... Were Talking about people who would get into full and painfully constructed groups, and grind mobs for hours and hours for a half bar of xp. No questing to level, no solo mobs, I'm talking full on mob grinds in open worlds where you competed for the best space and trained people to death for the best camps.

 

We don't do any of this in mmo's anymore because wow made a game that changed these conventions. Camp checks went the way of the dinosaur. Now we quest to level, and can solo everything of substance. And no one has dared to challenge this since.

 

Biowares strategy wasn't to make a better game than wow however. They just wanted to make one as good as, but still be able to drive their story too. That's their strategy to shove story down our throats and that's supposed to make us forget that we had reasons we left wow, or still love it.

 

This game is at best a wow clone, and at worst a wow clone.

Edited January 5, 2012 by kalexkhan

[Jaksith]

I played WOW for three years and used addons/macros and everything else imagineable. Personally, I enjoy the change and less complications, I hope it stays this way. But I also never did heroic progression raiding and needed parses of charts to find problems, so I can see the other side.

 

Just my two-cents

[alkanterah]

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

These things among others are a necessity.

 

Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.

 

This highlights a good point, it's not the game.. It's the players. Of course just ignore the first line. See a good list of crutches people have become dependent on to play.

[SpadeFromNinety]

wow... D=

 

I was enjoying the game until I stopped to read this.

Now I read every post and felt bad because people don't like this game...

So I turned the client on once more, started to play and I don't feel bad anymore just because a minority can't enjoy what I enjoy.

 

=D

____________________

 

Jokes aside:

 

 

If I like Pizza with Ham and cheese... why do I need Four Cheese Pizza (actually, I do like Four Cheese Pizza A LOT but stick with this example)?

The answer is, I don't and will eat the pizza I like.

 

If they don't sell the Pizza you like, you go to another restaurant.

 

 

If you like Domino's, why are you turning our favorite Pizza Hut pizza's into Domino's? Why bother people that like Pizza Hut?

Can't you have Domino's alike pizzas at Domino's that you need to constantly bother us to "convert" into Domino's?

 

 

I mean, it's the same thing, your comparing a restaurant that just opened with one that is out for a long time and haves a LONG menu for all tastes.

"But if you want to compete with the market... ya need to be good has THAT ONE or EVEN BETTER!"

Maybe Pizza Hut's cheese is better than Domino's

Maybe Domino's Bacon is better than Pizza Hut's

Who cares, if you like bacon so much, don't even eat pizza, just inject bacon into your veins.

 

If you don't have the time, go away and come back in a few months, maybe they will have the pizza you like... but remember:

- Eating the same pizza again-and-again... it's bad for your health.

 

 

"But Professionals do this and Newbies do that!"

I know people eat pizza professionally... does it matter if I and many other people don't? Be happy that we all, at least, enjoy pizza.

 

________________________

 

 

Remember, criticism is nice an'danty but there was a reason WHY you abandoned the game you are trying to compare to SWTOR and want SWTOR to "copy" from that "other" game.

 

Be honest, why do you want SWTOR to be exactly like the game you abandoned?

It's like:

- "I'm from X country and migrated to Y country because it's a nice place to live but... why this new country ain't exactly like the country I came from?"

Answer:

- "If country Y was exactly like country X, would you still be there or would you even consider country Y a nice place to live (which means your technically saying X country ain't that pleasant to live like country Y so, for you, it's like saying Y>X) ?"

 

______________________

 

My conclusion (TL-DR)

 

I think people buy games without even gaining knowledge of what the game GIVES you. Way to waste your money and then blame the company... you were the ones that wasted money on something you don't know about:

- Like going to buy a ticket to a new movie you know nothing but it's hyped... just to get inside and notice it's a horror movie (imagining you don't like those). Then you get outside and rage because you tough it was a "Kid's movie" (imagining you like those).

 

 

 

_____________________

 

Sorry for my long post but it just makes me laugh when people demand things they saw on games they even abandoned for some mysterious reasons.

 

I love this game because it was clearly made for Role-Players, like me =D

 

A nice change from all those PvP/PvE games out there that offer lil'to people like me.

 

 

 

Toddles,

Edited January 6, 2012 by SpadeFromNinety

[Isende]

wow... D=

 

 

If I like Pizza with Ham and cheese... why do I need Four Cheese Pizza (actually, I do like Four Cheese Pizza A LOT but stick with this example)?

The answer is, I don't and will eat the pizza I like.

 

If they don't sell the Pizza you like, you go to another restaurant.

 

shortened for brevity.

 

it's not about your enjoyment of the game, or my lack. it's about, to be quite brutal, the busted bubbles of so many. i'm here because my bf and guild are here, and watching them muddle through something that they wanted so desperately is disenheartening. for me? pft, i'm happy to go back to another game -- there are a few choices out there, i don't even have to go back to that one i left well over a year ago.

 

but what so many people aren't getting is that this game has been heavily anticipated for YEARS. people have clung to every posting, video, and clip about the progress, the building, and the release of the game for a very long time. hopes rose, and rose, and rose. and within my guild, even the strongest "fanboi" contingent are saying, "wow. i just don't know if i can play this."

 

they say it with pain in their voices, because they WANT it to work. they WANT it to be good. they WANT it to live up to the expectations that years of marketing and dev created.

 

in a nutshell, it's not. and i got news for you, too -- rp game? yeah, read their posting re: pvp, then guess again.

[SpadeFromNinety]

shortened for brevity.

 

it's not about your enjoyment of the game, or my lack. it's about, to be quite brutal, the busted bubbles of so many. i'm here because my bf and guild are here, and watching them muddle through something that they wanted so desperately is disenheartening. for me? pft, i'm happy to go back to another game -- there are a few choices out there, i don't even have to go back to that one i left well over a year ago.

 

but what so many people aren't getting is that this game has been heavily anticipated for YEARS. people have clung to every posting, video, and clip about the progress, the building, and the release of the game for a very long time. hopes rose, and rose, and rose. and within my guild, even the strongest "fanboi" contingent are saying, "wow. i just don't know if i can play this."

 

they say it with pain in their voices, because they WANT it to work. they WANT it to be good. they WANT it to live up to the expectations that years of marketing and dev created.

 

in a nutshell, it's not. and i got news for you, too -- rp game? yeah, read their posting re: pvp, then guess again.

 

Then come back in a few months and see if they have the pizza with all those flavors? That was basically the point of my post.

Waited for years? Well, so did I and I'm not disappointed, I knew exactly what I was going to buy and I'm happy.

 

I don't know what failed, well, definitely I didn't.

 

But the thing is, your trying to turn this into games you played in the past... that you don't even play it now.

 

 

I like it this way. If they add more, great for you and me! But saying "I'm disappointed they didn't do this and that" when you don't have reasons to complain... you had google to search what kind of game is this!

 

 

You wanted to play with your friends? Well, your playing. Mission Accomplish! Your playing with toys you don't like but hey, you have your friends, have fun =D

[Flowerslayer]

Except that technology isn't linear. That's why every new smartphone line that comes out doesn't have to look like a brick phone from the 80's until they refine it.

 

Well said. Way over the fanboys heads tho.

[Flowerslayer]

Then come back in a few months and see if they have the pizza with all those flavors? That was basically the point of my post.

Waited for years? Well, so did I and I'm not disappointed, I knew exactly what I was going to buy and I'm happy.

 

I don't know what failed, well, definitely I didn't.

 

But the thing is, your trying to turn this into games you played in the past... that you don't even play it now.

 

 

I like it this way. If they add more, great for you and me! But saying "I'm disappointed they didn't do this and that" when you don't have reasons to complain... you had google to search what kind of game is this!

 

 

You wanted to play with your friends? Well, your playing. Mission Accomplish! Your playing with toys you don't like but hey, you have your friends, have fun =D

 

Stop posting, you make me hungry!

[Isende]

Then come back in a few months and see if they have the pizza with all those flavors? That was basically the point of my post.

Waited for years? Well, so did I and I'm not disappointed, I knew exactly what I was going to buy and I'm happy.

 

I don't know what failed, well, definitely I didn't.

 

But the thing is, your trying to turn this into games you played in the past... that you don't even play it now.

 

 

I like it this way. If they add more, great for you and me! But saying "I'm disappointed they didn't do this and that" when you don't have reasons to complain... you had google to search what kind of game is this!

 

 

You wanted to play with your friends? Well, your playing. Mission Accomplish! Your playing with toys you don't like but hey, you have your friends, have fun =D

 

*sigh* oh ye of little understanding, rest content that you see and know all. done.

[Fenaire]

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

These things among others are a necessity.

 

I don't want any of these things. In fact I don't want the quest tracker or the map identifier for helping me find where X item is hidden. Then again, I'm told I'm a purist.

[Divian]

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

These things among others are a necessity.

 

Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.

 

 

 

How about NO WOW you idiot.

[neXITem]

OP you are right, it takes time. they had a good start. but here and there they could have had more Rift had a better start tbh. However. im sticking with this game until its dead or f2p

[ProspectorPete]

BOOHOO, i can't play a game without 500+ addons to show you how to play. Its not hard just learn to play and be good at it. Learn when to dps and not to dps. Learn when to CC and not to break CC.

 

I have never seen so many people cry over stupid addons/macros what WOW allowed them to use because they were incapable of actually playing.

 

If you are just going to rant and rave of these thing just go back we can do without all the wining/trolling on the forums for now.

 

Damage meters are essential to theorycrafting. Without them you can not figure out what the optimal dps class/rotation are. The only reason people dont want damage meters is because they dont want people to know just how much they suck.

 

If you dont want them, just start a guild called no addons and you can suck it up with other like minded individuals.

[Tastyfreeze]

I think the issue with this game are people like this who play it. They're stuck in a rut of past games and terrified of change. If you want the game to be exactly the same as WoW, a carbon copy, then i know just the game for you. WORLD OF WARCRAFT Edited January 6, 2012 by Tastyfreeze

[ProspectorPete]

I think the issue with this game are people like this who play it. They're stuck in a rut of past games and terrified of change. If you want the game to be exactly the same as WoW, a carbon copy, then i know just the game for you. WORLD OF WARCRAFT

 

TOR is the same game with less options. WHats that I quest for xp? Whats that I do (instances) flashpoints for gear? Whats that I have a skill treee that allows me to do different specs? Yeah, why would people expect TOR to be anything like wow /sarcasm.

[SpadeFromNinety]

Stop posting, you make me hungry!

Sorry.

 

Some people need things simple and clear, so why not food?

OF COURSE, not your case, Flower'hun

 

What I find hilarious is that they say I'm "simple" and know "little". The opposite, it takes wisdom to explain complex subjects using examples that everyone can relate too.

 

 

Yet these people that just got out of Elementary School and learned to count to 10 think they can use the number 10 all the time because it's higher than the number 3 or 5.

Then, when they see an adult using numbers like those two I mentioned, they laugh and say "That adult knows lil'... tee hee hee, I can count to 10 *proud*" (Still, it's pretty cute when they do that, who would be the idiot to crush those kids hope and thirst for knowledge by saying that 10 ain't nothing, try a Centillion?)

 

 

 

Anyway, your right... it is makin'me hungry typing all this

Next time I'll compare to anything besides food.

Edited January 6, 2012 by SpadeFromNinety

[westraz]

is this post a joke? I stall have nightmares form other new MMO's post when well "this" get fixed