The ANTI LFD and LFR tool thread!

[Rinkitink]

i approve this message

 

Not even the majority of the players are on the forums at all, so continue making stuff up please.

[Mertissielle]

It actually happened all the time after the LFD tool came. Some people only have selective memory.

 

Yup, I remember it too. Still happens now as well.

 

Plus, people forget that despite being cross-server, the tool does prioritise people from your realm first and only groups outside of your server when it can't find one from it quick enough.

[Rodiruk]

They didn't. They gave children an option to make their grinding faster, and they ate it up like candy. The LFG tool that WoW implemented is an abomination. Yes it has purpose, but that purpose could have been fulfilled without killing the massive questing zones they spent years creating. Anyone still using trade chat to form groups is falling behind the proverbial pack, and since WoW is all about gearing out as fast as you can, well.. you fall behind if you stick to what works best for the realm.

 

Please explain how the LFG tool "killed the massive questing zones".

 

Man people need to stop exaggerating stuff just to make their opinion valid.

[mattdell]

Please explain how the LFG tool "killed the massive questing zones".

 

Man people need to stop exaggerating stuff just to make their opinion valid.

 

Not exaggerating anything, at all. When I first joined WoW, I was stricken with glee at the sheer size of the game. Everywhere I turned, someone was near me, questing, stealing my loot boxes, spamming /1 with requests for PvP help, or to form a group. The questing zones were VIBRANT AND ALIVE. This is NOT the case anymore. You can powerlevel through LFG, without ever leaving Orgrimmar. I had 20+ toons over level 70 by the time I quit, with 5 85's, and I can tell you FOR A FACT that the questing zones COMPLETELY died due to LFD being cross realm. It is the primary reason for my quitting WoW. There is no such thing as an MMO that is lacking the MM part. That's a TERRIBLE design, and I feel sorry for the people that aren't enlightened enough to see it.

My personal experience might not constitute the "factual basis" you are wanting from me, but all you need to do is scour the infinite number of pages on the WoW forums explaining everything I've just said. It's all there in black and white.

 

The argument is moot at this point. The self entitled teenagers and young adults of the new generation want things fast. Well, guess what. Fast gaming with young people = rage, and rage = the Wow community.

Edited January 5, 2012 by mattdell

[Sandwichism]

You have my vote!

Keep the community involved, let the WoW kids die out.

[Rodiruk]

Not exaggerating anything, at all. When I first joined WoW, I was stricken with glee at the sheer size of the game. Everywhere I turned, someone was near me, questing, stealing my loot boxes, spamming /1 with requests for PvP help, or to form a group. The questing zones were VIBRANT AND ALIVE. This is NOT the case anymore. You can powerlevel through LFG, without ever leaving Orgrimmar. I had 20+ toons over level 70 by the time I quit, with 5 85's, and I can tell you FOR A FACT that the questing zones COMPLETELY died due to LFD being cross realm. That's a TERRIBLE design, and I feel sorry for the people that aren't enlightened enough to see it.

 

Or how about the fact that the game was a few years old by then and most people were max level?

 

I had a lot of 85's as well. The only difference as far as leveling goes before and after LFD is that I could actually run the lower level dungeons. That is a BRILLIANT design. I also have never heard of anyone "power leveling through LFG". Questing was and still is the fastest way to level.

 

Also, before the LFG tool I was stuck in the main city spamming for a group. After LFG, I could go out and do dailies and work on my crafting professions while waiting for my dungeon to pop. This in turn brought me to some very fun world PvP battles.

[Mertissielle]

Not exaggerating anything, at all. When I first joined WoW, I was stricken with glee at the sheer size of the game. Everywhere I turned, someone was near me, questing, stealing my loot boxes, spamming /1 with requests for PvP help, or to form a group. The questing zones were VIBRANT AND ALIVE. This is NOT the case anymore. You can powerlevel through LFG, without ever leaving Orgrimmar. I had 20+ toons over level 70 by the time I quit, with 5 85's, and I can tell you FOR A FACT that the questing zones COMPLETELY died due to LFD being cross realm. It is the primary reason for my quitting WoW. There is no such thing as an MMO that is lacking the MM part. That's a TERRIBLE design, and I feel sorry for the people that aren't enlightened enough to see it.

 

Can != have to.

 

First time players don't spam LFG to level I'm sure. Some people like questing and do it on all their dudes. I hate it so I tend to level mainly through LFG and BGs, with only the occasional quest.

 

I prefer WoW that way. You don't. Doesn't make Blizzard evil or LFG bad for trying to cater to both of us at the same time.

[mattdell]

Or how about the fact that the game was a few years old by then and most people were max level?

 

I had a lot of 85's as well. The only difference as far as leveling goes before and after LFD is that I could actually run the lower level dungeons. That is a BRILLIANT design. I also have never heard of anyone "power leveling through LFG". Questing was and still is the fastest way to level.

 

Also, before the LFG tool I was stuck in the main city spamming for a group. After LFG, I could go out and do dailies and work on my crafting professions while waiting for my dungeon to pop. This in turn brought me to some very fun world PvP battles.

 

The only reason you envision questing to be faster is because of the linear design changes to questing with Cataclysm. I'm telling you, as I've tested this numerous times, myself and former guildies. Wearing a complete set of BoA gear and dungeon grinding as a demanded role(tank/heal) is at least 2x faster than questing. Anyone creating new alts will have BoA gear, and outlevel their quest zones before they've completed 30% of it. They turn to LFD because the XP is on par, no matter the level. I played on Cho'gall, a high pop server that was ranked #5 in the world for PvE progression when I quit playing. I'm not spouting off random stuff here. I observed that game for many years. My opinion may be just opinion, but you cannot deny that it has some factual backing. If you can, you're in denial. I don't lie and I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a realist.

Edited January 5, 2012 by mattdell

[Yfelsung]

Please explain how the LFG tool "killed the massive questing zones".

 

Man people need to stop exaggerating stuff just to make their opinion valid.

 

You may have been on a terrible server where people were already sitting in capitals spamming LFG before the LFD channels.

 

Some of us came from servers with much nicer communities that literally collapsed under the weight of anonymity that LFD tools allowed.

 

Back in the day on Shadow Council (my old WoW server), if you ninja looted you got straight up black listed because we had a strong enough community to do this.

 

Once LFD came along it was a lot harder to black list a guy who can just keep requeuing until he hits a group who's never heard of him.

 

In an LFG tool (not LFD queue) system, if the guy was like "LFG for "Dungeon"" then someone who knew he was a ninja looter could type in the LFG tool "That guy stole "this time" from "this dungeon"" and now the guy can't get a group.

 

Anonymity breeds douchebaggery.

[Putok]

And again, how many friends have you made in a warzone? How many in a group?

 

I've been leveling, so I have yet to form a 4 person flashpoint group (though I have 2 manned pretty much all of them up to my level with my leveling partner), because I don't want to sit in the fleet doing nothing. That isn't my idea of having fun. To be quite blunt, I don't particularly care about making friends in flashpoints while I'm leveling up. I care about having fun, and not having my time wasted. Forcing me to leave a planet that has relevant content to stand around in the capital city twiddling my thumbs is indubitably a waste of my time, and not fun.

 

Do you really think your gaming experience would be in any way improved if you had to stand in the capital, spamming general to find a PvP group?

[Moricthian]

The only reason you envision questing to be faster is because of the linear design changes to questing with Cataclysm. I'm telling you, as I've tested this numerous times, myself and former guildies. Wearing a complete set of BoA gear and dungeon grinding as a demanded role(tank/heal) is at least 2x faster than questing.

 

I want to make up random things too!!!!!! Since LFD was introduced, people died of heart disseas like 3X more.

[PjPablo]

Fast gaming with young people = rage, and rage = the Wow community.

 

There is more rage here on these boards then in any other game I have played, including WOW.

[Rodiruk]

You may have been on a terrible server where people were already sitting in capitals spamming LFG before the LFD channels.

 

Some of us came from servers with much nicer communities that literally collapsed under the weight of anonymity that LFD tools allowed.

 

Back in the day on Shadow Council (my old WoW server), if you ninja looted you got straight up black listed because we had a strong enough community to do this.

 

Once LFD came along it was a lot harder to black list a guy who can just keep requeuing until he hits a group who's never heard of him.

 

In an LFG tool (not LFD queue) system, if the guy was like "LFG for "Dungeon"" then someone who knew he was a ninja looter could type in the LFG tool "That guy stole "this time" from "this dungeon"" and now the guy can't get a group.

 

Anonymity breeds douchebaggery.

 

Fair enough, I can at least see your point here.

[Endual]

That problem will never go away. Healing and especially tanking right now are always going to be inherently harder, therefore less people playing them. You're a DPS. Sad to say, you're a dime a dozen. You (dps) are needed to finish the instance, yes, but you (Endual) particularly are not needed. Theres hundreds of you out there. I'm sure Bioware will meet in the middle on this subject and give us a local-realm only LFG tab of some sort, but expecting instant groups as a DPS character in a game that isn't 2 weeks old... Well, no offense but that's delusional.

 

I'm not new to the mmo bit. I get how finding a group as dps works.

 

That being said, I'm not going to sit around for an hour and do nothing while I'm waiting to join a group. The bets place to look for a group currently seems to be the Imperial Fleet, where I can at best queue for warzones while I wait (and while I'm in one, I can't look for a group). If there were a tool that let everybody know I was looking for a flashpoint group WHILE I got other stuff done, well... that make a lot more sense to me, and I assume most people who don't have hours to waste spamming general chat.

[Mertissielle]

You may have been on a terrible server where people were already sitting in capitals spamming LFG before the LFD channels.

 

Some of us came from servers with much nicer communities that literally collapsed under the weight of anonymity that LFD tools allowed.

 

Back in the day on Shadow Council (my old WoW server), if you ninja looted you got straight up black listed because we had a strong enough community to do this.

 

Once LFD came along it was a lot harder to black list a guy who can just keep requeuing until he hits a group who's never heard of him.

 

In an LFG tool (not LFD queue) system, if the guy was like "LFG for "Dungeon"" then someone who knew he was a ninja looter could type in the LFG tool "That guy stole "this time" from "this dungeon"" and now the guy can't get a group.

 

Anonymity breeds douchebaggery.

 

But that's a fault of its cross-server nature rather than its ability to let you queue while questing / running laps of Dalaran, surely?

 

If they had a server-only LFD tool and realm forums, you could still blacklist the guy if your server had that vibe to it, right?

[Yfelsung]

Fair enough, I can at least see your point here.

 

Which is why we should work together to create a strong LFG tool that is not just an LFD queue.

 

Something that allows groups to be found easily, but something that does not contribute to anonymity.

 

There's a middle ground we can work towards. Most anti-LFD people are not anti LFG-tool, we're just specifically against LFD queues.

[Rodiruk]

Which is why we should work together to create a strong LFG tool that is not just an LFD queue.

 

Something that allows groups to be found easily, but something that does not contribute to anonymity.

 

There's a middle ground we can work towards. Most anti-LFD people are not anti LFG-tool, we're just specifically against LFD queues.

 

It would be nice if you could add people to your ignore list. Those on the ignore list will not be grouped up with you. That way you can eventually build up a list of people you don't want to group with still enjoy the benefits of the tool.

[mattdell]

I want to make up random things too!!!!!! Since LFD was introduced, people died of heart disseas like 3X more.

 

Just because I'm not spouting off all the numbers that have been crunched over this debate in the past, doesn't make me a liar. It has been proven, via complex mathematical equations, that LFD spamming-to-level is faster than questing. MUCH faster. Grow up, start accepting the fact that other people in this world have opinions(and sometimes FACTS! omg), and can verbalize them without spewing off at the mouth like a 15 year old. Do this community a favor and either **** or quit the game. You are EXACTLY the breed of player I want OUT of my MMOs. If you don't have the capacity to accept opinion of other, you shouldn't be playing in a game with others. Go back to xbox live, leave now and I'll let you live.

 

/darkside

Edited January 5, 2012 by mattdell

[Yfelsung]

But that's a fault of its cross-server nature rather than its ability to let you queue while questing / running laps of Dalaran, surely?

 

If they had a server-only LFD tool and realm forums, you could still blacklist the guy if your server had that vibe to it, right?

 

A very small number of a player base uses the forums, so realm forums still don't allow that level of community.

 

I agree we should have realm forums, but we also need to ensure the community remains strong and connected in game by creating community building tools, not queues.

[Yfelsung]

It would be nice if you could add people to your ignore list. Those on the ignore list will not be grouped up with you. That way you can eventually build up a list of people you don't want to group with still enjoy the benefits of the tool.

 

Where that is true when it comes to ensuring you don't group with a bad person, it still allows the bad person to group without punishment.

 

A good community needs both the connectivity and power required to punish bad behaviour.

 

It's not good enough just to ignore the ninja looter so that you never group with him, you must ensure the ninja looter pays a social price for his offense.

 

Because ninja looting isn't strictly against the ToS, we as players must enforce against this type of anti-social behaviour.

 

Bioware/EA can only do so much, much of it falls in our hands.

[Rodiruk]

Where that is true when it comes to ensuring you don't group with a bad person, it still allows the bad person to group without punishment.

 

A good community needs both the connectivity and power required to punish bad behaviour.

 

It's not good enough just to ignore the ninja looter so that you never group with him, you must ensure the ninja looter pays a social price for his offense.

 

Because ninja looting isn't strictly against the ToS, we as players must enforce against this type of anti-social behaviour.

 

Bioware/EA can only do so much, much of it falls in our hands.

 

It would work the same way as any blacklist. If enough people have him on ignore, his queues get longer and longer.

[Umbral]

Not exaggerating anything, at all. When I first joined WoW, I was stricken with glee at the sheer size of the game. Everywhere I turned, someone was near me, questing, stealing my loot boxes, spamming /1 with requests for PvP help, or to form a group. The questing zones were VIBRANT AND ALIVE. This is NOT the case anymore. You can powerlevel through LFG, without ever leaving Orgrimmar. I had 20+ toons over level 70 by the time I quit, with 5 85's, and I can tell you FOR A FACT that the questing zones COMPLETELY died due to LFD being cross realm. It is the primary reason for my quitting WoW. There is no such thing as an MMO that is lacking the MM part. That's a TERRIBLE design, and I feel sorry for the people that aren't enlightened enough to see it.

My personal experience might not constitute the "factual basis" you are wanting from me, but all you need to do is scour the infinite number of pages on the WoW forums explaining everything I've just said. It's all there in black and white.

 

The argument is moot at this point. The self entitled teenagers and young adults of the new generation want things fast. Well, guess what. Fast gaming with young people = rage, and rage = the Wow community.

Except, grinding dungeons is a much slower way to level in WoW than open world questing, so what you're saying happened simply makes no sense whatsoever. The types of people that want to power level look for the fastest route, not the slower route.

 

I was in WoW at the time as well, and I'm also an altaholic, and the diminished population in questing zones started well before the LFD tool. It was a simple matter of the game's long term population explosion petering out that lowered the pops in questing zones. Less NA players were taking up the game for the first time and leveling through.

[Babykoui]

/signed. I do NOT want a LFD tool, it was good in WoW (KINDA), but that is because the game was 6 years old at the time!

[Deriver]

I am against an LFD queue.

 

I have no issue with an expanded LFG tool.

 

I am eternally against any form of cross server play.

 

I'm just generally against queues when it comes to PvE, and against cross server queues in PvP.

 

I completely agree with this post.

 

We can have an expanded LFG tool, but please, NO CROSS SERVER LFD, ever!

[Yfelsung]

It would work the same way as any blacklist. If enough people have him on ignore, his queues get longer and longer.

 

Where as that is true, you probably have never felt the joy of actually running a person off a server for his anti-social behaviour.

 

Where as it was not strictly ninja-looting that caused his offense, my server successfully drove a player named Packhunter off our server.

 

He became so utterly black listed that his own faction would stop fighting in BGs and allow us to farm him until he'd quit the BG.

 

Eventually he could not PvP, group, raid, nothing. He couldn't even quest as people would clear his quest mobs in front of him.

 

He had no choice but to switch servers.

 

We need tools that will create that kind of power.