Agents overpowred to a gamebreaking degree

[Teladis]

My level 30 op beat a level 50 geared mara. Man I love being on a balance class. lol

[Kasrai]

My level 30 op beat a level 50 geared mara. Man I love being on a balance class. lol

 

You beat him because he just happened to be much worse at the game than you. Not because your level 30 Operative is OP. Jesus the world is filled with mindless flesh bags these days.

[Ecchi_]

I'd love to see that screenshot if you can produce it. I'd love to believe you are right, I want to believe you are right . . . but the screenshot the OP put up I see every day.

Here's one from a few days ago. It is just so common on my server, I could post from any day and give you the same result. But I have never seen a marauder do the same thing, or even come close . . . but perhaps the level 50 marauders on my server suck . . . so I'd love to see a screeny if you could.

 

Search 500K club thread. BH's/Warriors/Sorcs get it all the time. Yes were good at killing people 1v1. A fantastic Operative w/ good gear will kill you before you get up if your CC break is down and your away from your team. We have a roll to fill its called picking off people. Guess what scrapper scoundrels can do the same thing. Its our job. I understand your pain but when I play my shadow I know what to do and rarely die from operatives.

[Teladis]

You beat him because he just happened to be much worse at the game than you. Not because your level 30 Operative is OP. Jesus the world is filled with mindless flesh bags these days.

 

I never said that we was Op? I said that I love being on a balance class. Compare to that failure of a class that is called mara. This class is better, and I target mara knowing that I destory them.

[wintersnight]

My level 30 op beat a level 50 geared mara. Man I love being on a balance class. lol

 

lie - you didn't do anything of the sort

[Srami]

what i love is there are so many threads about Operative bein OP...how can so many people be wrong. All iv heard is "l2P" and "only the skilled played operative thats why were so good".

 

They are OP otherwise there wouldnt be so much crying. Get your pads on operatives and be prepared to get hit with that big *** nerf stick...and hard!

[Teladis]

lie - you didn't do anything of the sort

 

Because its hard to kill a mara? You act like OPs cant take them out with ease. Please dont troll me.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Teladis

[thecoffeecup]

what i love is there are so many threads about Operative bein OP...how can so many people be wrong. All iv heard is "l2P" and "only the skilled played operative thats why were so good".

 

That's pretty easily explained:

 

- Being killed from stealth is often considered less fair than if someone runs straight up to you and kills you. Even if the player being killed from stealth could have reacted and survived (and that's the whole point when fighting stealth based classes anyway, they are at a massive disadvantage when their stealth attack fails).

- People come to forums to explain their failure away by blaming other classes. It's called being a sore loser.

- There are many good examples of a lot of people being wrong. Beverly Hills 90210 was a popular show. People thought the earth was flat. Etc. "That many people can't be wrong" is a horrible argument.

Edited January 8, 2012 by thecoffeecup

[Kasrai]

what i love is there are so many threads about Operative bein OP...how can so many people be wrong. All iv heard is "l2P" and "only the skilled played operative thats why were so good".

 

They are OP otherwise there wouldnt be so much crying. Get your pads on operatives and be prepared to get hit with that big *** nerf stick...and hard!

 

You have stupid logic.

[Shidara_Vaden]

We're not as powerful as you all believe. One must be specced accordingly, and be well geared for that kind of damage. As for the heals, it'll be somewhat tough to get those numbers without being a medic, but I guess it's doable.

 

The only ones I've seen wreck folks fairly consistently as an operative are actually rather skilled players and PvP Geared. Anyways, we can be countered a number of ways.

 

1.) Break the initial knockdown. You'll have a chance to recover, and on top of that your resolve bar will be full, so you can get stunned against for a bit.

 

2.) CC the operative immediately, and be ready to cc the operative again. We only have one cc break.

 

3.) If you survive the initial burst, you can typically heal through the damage. We only have two interrupts, and one of them is a stun.

 

4.) Knockbacks. We have no skill that allows us to immediately close the distance.

 

5.) Dot, dot, and dot. We'll be less likely to escape, and on top of that less likely to vanish and reopen.

 

I'm not going to sit here and say l2p, as it'll simply make my words fall on deaf ears. All I'm going to say is please reevaluate your gear, level, and tactics before you start crying out for nerfs.

 

I used to be quite annoyed with Sorcs and Sages because they had a lot of survivability and good damage, but I found ways to kill them. There are times though that I'll get owned by them.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Shidara_Vaden

[pelijr]

Wrong, the armor penetration of acid blade is a self buff that lasts 15 seconds. It can be up 100% up the time with the DoT being up 66.66% of the time against your target simply by using acid blade before every backstab (9 second cooldown). It does cost energy though, I'd say the BH version is on par if not better. While it has to be ramped up the stacks are on an attack they'd be using anyways (tracer missile) and it has a higher % of penetration when it is fully ramped up.

 

LOL!

 

To apply the DOT of Acid Blade, I have to be standing BEHIND you....

 

Maybe instead of nerfing Operatives, you guys should start asking for wider field of vision so you can see us stabbing you in the back...... Seriously.... That's like me calling NERF on Force Push because I've been thrown off one to many bridges. Maybe I shouldn't have been standing on the bridge for so long? Just like YOU shouldn't let us stand behind you for so long. If an operative is able to backstab you 3 times before you can CC/Stun him, you fail. It's not my fault you're focusing on the Bounty Hunter with his Shield up instead of focusing on the squishy Operative. I know it's been said enough, but L2P. I get facemelted by Merc BH, Powertechs, and Sorc's all the time but you don't hear me going. "Please Bioware, the Powertech is just TOO good of a tank, or the Merc BH and Sorc are just TOO good at doing damage. The Operative is DESIGNED to get in, do his initial opener, hit you a few more times, and BUG THE **** out. Outside of that initial burst we are -nothing- compared to the other classes. If I can't achieve an opener on a similiary geared -ANYTHING (class)- then I am screwed.

It stumps me why people want the PVP in this game to be designed around 1v1 encounters.

 

PS: Tell me, have any of you ever tried playing Huttball (The most common WZ) without a knockback or gap closing ability? It's pretty challenging and resigns Ops to the role of taking people out who have the ball and covering their ball carrier. We all have a different job to do in WZ.

 

So let's make a deal okay? You all stop whining about my ability to do burst DPS from stealth, and I won't complain about not being able to Force Leap right to you or knock you back 15m away. Deal?

 

Wait Wait, better yet, nerf me, then I can be resigned to playing a GIMPED Merc BH Hybrid, where I can heal and do minor damage but can't do much of one or the other, OH and to do any of that healing or damage, I'll have to be in Melee Range too.

 

Seriously, now I know why Devs never listen to players when it comes to balancing and usually rely on statistics.

Edited January 8, 2012 by pelijr

[Bbizzle]

people just cry because they were the target of our burst. Its not like we acid blade their whole team for 30k. We pick a target, kill, and then we are gone. They fail to see a OP snared, or dot'ed, is a bad day for OP's. If they tryed to learn our weakness, they would see. You know all they want to do is kite us and pew pew, well thats exactly what we stop them from doing.

 

 

I bet that when people are geared at 50, conceal may not even be viable. People will still live through out burst and we will be sitting ducks with no gap closers. =/ just what I think I see commin.

 

 

med/leath, med ,or pure leath may be the way to go farther into the game, dunno we'll see

 

Target of your burst? I have 19k health, and die in 15 seconds to a battlemastered out agent on our server, and Im 2 pieces from full champ on a defense specced tank. doing 19k damage in 15 seconds isnt burst. It's rediculous.

 

 

On top of that. The primary issue with the burst and relic popping and what not for large crits, is that tanks dont have a Crit reducer stat. Like was in warhammer. Less likely to be crit was something you could stack as a tank. Stealthers didnt pop on tanks nor had an easy time killing them because they -shouldnt- As it stands right now. on a powertech or vanguard your defense is shield based. Shield procs, and it further reduces damage on top of your armor rating based on your shield absorbtion rating. But you can't shield crits. So all crits ignore our shield. And you're already ignoring 50% of our armor from behind on openers. So popping on a powertech or vanguard is basically like popping on a medium armor class. That's the part that is out of hand with scoundrels and operatives.

[wintersnight]

Target of your burst? I have 19k health, and die in 15 seconds to a battlemastered out agent on our server, and Im 2 pieces from full champ on a defense specced tank. doing 19k damage in 15 seconds isnt burst. It's rediculous.

 

 

On top of that. The primary issue with the burst and relic popping and what not for large crits, is that tanks dont have a Crit reducer stat. Like was in warhammer. Less likely to be crit was something you could stack as a tank. Stealthers didnt pop on tanks nor had an easy time killing them because they -shouldnt- As it stands right now. on a powertech or vanguard your defense is shield based. Shield procs, and it further reduces damage on top of your armor rating based on your shield absorbtion rating. But you can't shield crits. So all crits ignore our shield. And you're already ignoring 50% of our armor from behind on openers. So popping on a powertech or vanguard is basically like popping on a medium armor class. That's the part that is out of hand with scoundrels and operatives.

 

If you're a tank with that much gear and you are dying to an operative in 15 seconds...then the problem is not the operative.

[triangulate]

I think this whole Op's are OP thing will die a death when combat logs are implemented and people realise that...

 

A) The 3 - 4 other people hitting them from range contibuted to their deaths just as much as the Op did.

 

B) That there isn't realy much difference between our damage and that of a Sorc or Merc or sniper, its just that our DPS is higher for that first bursty few seconds, after that i am easily out damaged by almost anyone.

 

The real problem with Op is that if he is 400 Biochem he is able to stealth close to his victim and pop a surge stim + relic + the PvP thingy (i forget the name) and effectively double his burst from stealth.

Other classes find this harder to do as they are in plain sight and usualy can't take the time out to apply these goodies before attacking.

 

In full champ gear (missing 2 pieces) i crit with my opener for 2-4k, my initial 3 seconds of burst could do from 5-7k depending on my target. (Now remember that same geared sorcs can DOT me for up to 10k)

If i pop my relic, PvP thingy and stim then that 5-7k burst can go to 9-11k.

This is the problem, not the Op as a class.

[Ojas]

Concealment operatives are the easiest class to counter.

 

AOEs break stealth.

Hidden strike negated.

 

Kite them. Lag makes it impossible to attack.

 

Turn around constantly. They cant use backstab.

 

Snare them.

 

Go behind a ledge. They cant attack

 

They are melee. Back up. focus fire.

[Aramyn]

Target of your burst? I have 19k health, and die in 15 seconds to a battlemastered out agent on our server, and Im 2 pieces from full champ on a defense specced tank. doing 19k damage in 15 seconds isnt burst. It's rediculous.

 

That can happen when you forget to use your abilities.

[Rizael]

The real problem with Op is that if he is 400 Biochem he is able to stealth close to his victim and pop a surge stim + relic + the PvP thingy (i forget the name) and effectively double his burst from stealth.

Other classes find this harder to do as they are in plain sight and usualy can't take the time out to apply these goodies before attacking.

 

The PvP expertise potion 15% breaks stealth so you can't use it on your opener.

[Obtena]

The N=1 case doesn't prove anything. Maybe it's fun to take a singular instance and use it as their foundation for why something needs to change, but it's certainly not logical. Edited January 9, 2012 by Obtena

[Pinworms]

I've broken 420K at least a few times, and my gear isn't even all that great. I feel bad for the under lvl50's who I can kill before hidden strike wears off, but 50's brackets will fix this. I still have a great deal of difficulty killing good Bounty Hunters, so that at least keeps the class in check...

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a slight nerf to our damage, if they increased our utility, such as with a sprint or knockback.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Pinworms

[Agenteusa]

Well, then nerf classes that can do pushbacks because it´s annoying that you can´t stay on a platform in Huttball doing what an operative (concealment) should be doing and thats nuking the ball carrier.

 

Seriously, realize that IA´s are not an easy class to play, they require skill to play unlike a Trooper and BH IMO.

 

We´re squishy and we don´t have as much uptime dealing dmg as other classes and also we dont´have a REALLY useful aoe.

 

If you want to nerf/remove knockdowns , stealth and cc´s then we are doing nothing in pvp. We would just be a really bad melee class.

 

Learn to deal with operatives. I´m curious what class are you playing?

 

And btw, nerf our dmg? Really? I mean really?

 

I already did 280k in a warzone as a trooper at lvl 20 (yes you read well, at lvl 20 and if someone requires I can post that) and it wasn´t against people my lvl so what´s the big deal with doing 400k+ as an operative at lvl 50? C´mon get real.

 

If anything something should be done about sorcs/BH/Troopers ridiculous AoE´s.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Agenteusa

[Delekii]

Well, then nerf classes that can do pushbacks because it´s annoying that you can´t stay on a platform in Huttball doing what an operative (concealment) should be doing and thats nuking the ball carrier.

 

Seriously, realize that IA´s are not an easy class to play, they require skill to play unlike a Trooper and BH IMO.

 

We´re squishy and we don´t have as much uptime dealing dmg as other classes and also we dont´have a REALLY useful aoe.

 

If you want to nerf/remove knockdowns , stealth and cc´s then we are doing nothing in pvp. We would just be a really bad melee class.

 

Learn to deal with operatives. I´m curious what class are you playing?

 

And btw, nerf our dmg? Really? I mean really?

 

I already did 280k in a warzone as a trooper at lvl 20 (yes you read well, at lvl 20 and if someone requires I can post that) and it wasn´t against people my lvl so what´s the big deal with doing 400k+ as an operative at lvl 50? C´mon get real.

 

If anything something should be done about sorcs/BH/Troopers ridiculous AoE´s.

Being difficult to play doesn't justify being overpowered when played well. That's not how it works.

 

That said, I have seen screenshots of sorcerers doing the same sort of combo of numbers re: heal vs. dps.

[trixlixmy]

Operatives and scoundrels are overpowered, Im nearly full champ on a defense specced vanguard, and I've gotten taken down to dead within 15 seconds by a geared operative.

 

No one person should have an easy time taking me down. On top of that, you can never hit these guys bcause they pop 45% accuracy reducer, or CC run away and LOS to heal, There is way too much survivability on a class that hits that rediculously hard.

 

A friend of mine got crit on an opener by an operative for 7200. Before you sit there and defend your class, hop on another character for a while.

 

 

 

lol It took 15 seconds for the operative to kill you, wth were you doing and what the hell was the operative doing. Be careful what you say cause out of all spec powertech/vangaurds are the hardest to kill... while still putting out great damage...

Edited January 9, 2012 by trixlixmy

[Agenteusa]

Being difficult to play doesn't justify being overpowered when played well. That's not how it works.

 

That said, I have seen screenshots of sorcerers doing the same sort of combo of numbers re: heal vs. dps.

 

Never in my post did I say that if a class is difficult to play it should be OP. What I mean is normally you will find more players that don´t play these classes that well and once in a while you find a couple who really can play it and you go "oh the class is OP".

 

So really , it´s nothing new in TOR , every class that has a player that can master it is OP in soem way when playing against players only above average.

 

I´ve seen the most ridiculous comments in the forums about Operatives one shotting constantly and its all bull****.

 

Are they annoying, yes they are but so are all rogue classes in every mmo. Just be happy you can´t be stunlocked as badly as in otehr games.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Agenteusa

[danatharia]

I'll just ask this here ratehr than start an entirely new topic, but how come that people often complain about 3-4k crits from low level Operatives when I as a level 29 Operative hardly do more than 1.5k damage critical with any one ability? Never mind dying in 6 seconds.

 

No I am not saying that those who complain are wrong, Ia m just looking for a bit of insight as I am clearly doing something wrong if I can't perform to the degree everyone say I should.

 

And could someone please enlighten me on how the ability Eviscerate works? It is always greyed out for me even when enemies are supposedly incapacitated and it seems to be my most powerful ability I don't really know what it's all about.

Edited January 9, 2012 by danatharia

[YpaWinz]

I'll just ask this here ratehr than start an entirely new topic, but how come that people often complain about 3-4k crits from low level Operatives when I as a level 29 Operative hardly do more than 1.5k damage critical with any one ability? Never mind dying in 6 seconds.

 

No I am not saying that those who complain are wrong, Ia m just looking for a bit of insight as I am clearly doing something wrong if I can't perform to the degree everyone say I should.

 

And could someone please enlighten me on how the ability Eviscerate works? It is always greyed out for me even when enemies are supposedly incapacitated and it seems to be my most powerful ability I don't really know what it's all about.

 

It'll get better as you get more crit/surge and acid blade.

 

As for eviscerate, it's PvE only, much like Headshot.