Republic Ghost Town

[dyves]

I've just done it for jung ma and confirmed, again, that its a 2:1 server. So your numbers are incorrect. there are 1.7x more empire in their fleet alone, and their chat is MUCH more active. (and out of the 10 servers I routinely check, Jung Ma is definitely the most balanced at 2:1 in favour of the empire)

 

In short, denying the factions are imbalanced is not a good idea, because its one thing everyone ingame will agree with without hesitation. It really is that obvious.

 

Nope, my numbers aren't incorrect, they're exactly how I found them, Jung Ma republic = 1022, Sith = 1481.

If you want to debunk the figures I found - which you won't be able to, because with some looking up I can give you even the date and time that I found them, then you have to present your own player population figures instead of just your gut feeling going rampant in subjective bias.

 

If you are this incorrect and vague about Jung Ma, trusting on your gut feeling instead of actual hard data, then I don't really trust your wild guesses about the other servers neither.

 

 

edit: oh, and for the Red Eclipse server, Republic = 1396, Sith = 1382. Another time I checked it was Republic = 1275, Sith = 1224

Trask Ulgo: Republic = 1539, Sith = 1407

Edited January 5, 2012 by dyves

[Satpolpp]

Its always the same everywhere.....everyone wants to be the bad guys more than they wanna be good guys...its just a fact of life........

[Novijen]

Republic for life.

[fungihoujo]

i have the end all be all solution to this problem.

 

 

nerf inquisitor.

 

and when i say nerf inquisitor i mean just inquisitor, not councilors as well. not because they are overpowered, but because everyone and their mother has an inq. at least 70% of the empire on my server is composed of inquisitors, nerf their class, and most of them will move to something else.

 

to really balance out the population make patch notes with changes that would make a republic class way OP, but dont actually implement them, most people won't be able to tell the difference and flock to that class anyways.

 

And this is exactly why nobody plays Republic. You come to the forums, representing your faction, with endless whines and complaints about every single thing, begging for nerfs and this and that for mirror classes, coming up with more inane reasons by the day for why your side is doing poorly, all of which have to do with favourtism or sith players being childish players who couldn't play their way out of a cookie jar...

 

 

Well guess what people see, a forum full of Republic whiners- I warned you people for years before the game came out because the Republic whinefest was already starting its gears back then that if you kept on degrading your side by making it look like every aspect, including the community, was garbage, you were going to face the consequences- and look at what happened, you are slowly driving out what support you have, and you really think that insulting the Imperial players and belittling them is going to make them want to play with you?

 

Let's see, play on my side where people are mature and take matches win or loss without more than maybe one sour apple throwing insults, where everyone is positive about the game and regularly talk about how much fun they're having... or go to the side that is always insulting me for liking sith, to the side that has 90% of the first page of General Forum covered with 'nerf sith' and 'republic sucks, signed republic players' threads.

 

That's such a tough decision.

 

Good lord why do you think nobody wants to play Republic? Even the staunch 'Republic supporters' make it sound like a death sentence. Do you honestly, HONESTLY, want servers to be balanced? Well if so PROVE IT, because nothing is hurting the Republic more right now than the Republic community.

[Auxili]

Its always the same everywhere.....everyone wants to be the bad guys more than they wanna be good guys...its just a fact of life........

Wasnt the case for WoW until the blood elves came out. People want to look 'pretty', and Empire is way prettier in this game (have you seen their armor and their fleet interiors?).

[Auxili]

edit: oh, and for the Red Eclipse server, Republic = 1396, Sith = 1382. Another time I checked it was Republic = 1275, Sith = 1224

Trask Ulgo: Republic = 1539, Sith = 1407

 

Those are PVE servers. Seriously, don't provide data outside the parameters. When we talk about pvp servers, we mean pvp servers. pve server =! pvp server

 

And yes, there's a difference between pvp and pve servers faction-balance wise for obvious reasons that are apparent in every MMO and has to do with the playerbase that chooses said server type, and the groups that transfer over from other MMOs.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Auxili

[dyves]

Those are PVE servers. Seriously, don't provide data outside the parameters. When we talk about pvp servers, we mean pvp servers. pve server =! pvp server

 

You conveniently ignore the PvP server I mentioned of which you claim it to be a 1:2 server, but where cold hard data proves it to be 2:3, Jung Ma.

[Errrkill]

Kinda how I feel, I've been told empire gets better treatment.

 

The food sucks over here.

[Auxili]

You conveniently ignore the PvP server I mentioned of which you claim it to be a 1:2 server, but where cold hard data proves it to be 2:3, Jung Ma.

 

And again, it's an rp-pvp server, which I stated is going to be more balanced than any normal pvp server and is a special case.

You stated other PVP servers are more balanced than Jung Ma. Then you used numbers from PVE servers to prove it.

Slanted. Not digging it. Moving on, back on topic.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Auxili

[Skeptical]

You conveniently ignore the PvP server I mentioned of which you claim it to be a 1:2 server, but where cold hard data proves it to be 2:3, Jung Ma.

 

And you got this "cold hard data" from where exactly?

 

Anyone who looked at the guild numbers before release knew about the population imbalance. There are more Empire than Republic on just about every single server. You're wrong and you should stop.

 

It's more than a little obvious to anyone who's spent any significant amount of time in the game. Get out of her with your fake "cold hard data" that you pulled out of your rear.

 

 

 

On topic:

 

One of my friends who turns into a complete and total tool when he plays MMORPGs switched sides to play Empire because "Empire wins more BGs, man". I saw a mistell from him while he was in a Warzone, he was browbeating his teammates, and it not only made my stomach turn but also made me question my friendship with him and I've known him for almost 2 decades.

 

And to me, that sums up the typical Vampire, Emo, WoW-head, Empire player. He fits the stereotype to a T. All the angsty uppity fools that take games way too seriously and used WoW's PvP to define who they are as people seem to flock to the Empire.

 

Don't get me wrong, not every Empire player is like that. I'm just saying that those types of players will not only flock to the "evil" side, but they'll also jump ship to which ever faction they perceive to have any advantage in PvP.

 

And while it is mostly the players faults for dog-piling onto one faction, the guys at Bioware have to take responsibility for the imbalances in not just the aesthetic appearances of the factions, but the inequality of the animations for the mirror classes that make a big difference in PvP.

[HelluvaJedi]

And this is exactly why nobody plays Republic. You come to the forums, representing your faction, with endless whines and complaints about every single thing, begging for nerfs and this and that for mirror classes, coming up with more inane reasons by the day for why your side is doing poorly, all of which have to do with favourtism or sith players being childish players who couldn't play their way out of a cookie jar...

 

 

Well guess what people see, a forum full of Republic whiners- I warned you people for years before the game came out because the Republic whinefest was already starting its gears back then that if you kept on degrading your side by making it look like every aspect, including the community, was garbage, you were going to face the consequences- and look at what happened, you are slowly driving out what support you have, and you really think that insulting the Imperial players and belittling them is going to make them want to play with you?

 

Let's see, play on my side where people are mature and take matches win or loss without more than maybe one sour apple throwing insults, where everyone is positive about the game and regularly talk about how much fun they're having... or go to the side that is always insulting me for liking sith, to the side that has 90% of the first page of General Forum covered with 'nerf sith' and 'republic sucks, signed republic players' threads.

 

That's such a tough decision.

 

Good lord why do you think nobody wants to play Republic? Even the staunch 'Republic supporters' make it sound like a death sentence. Do you honestly, HONESTLY, want servers to be balanced? Well if so PROVE IT, because nothing is hurting the Republic more right now than the Republic community.

 

What a vile, pathetic and vitriolic rant. Had that one bottled up for a few years, did you?

 

Let's just neglect that most of what you wrote - particularly about Republic players insulting Empire players - had nothing to do with the post you were responding to or really any post in this thread (save the post just above me, it seems). Let's also forget that faction rivalries exist on both sides, and generally include absurd accusations about age or station.

 

THERE IS A BALANCE PROBLEM. It needs to be fixed because of real in-game consequences. If you take any suggestion as an affront to your sensibilities then so be it. PvP servers will continue to be broken until BioWare takes action in some way.

Edited January 5, 2012 by HelluvaJedi

[Jedi_Wannabe]

It surprised me to hear these complaints but apparently looks do matter a lot.

 

Wouldn't matter at all if we had a good way to customize our appearance. The current system isn't just bad, it's a joke.

[dyves]

And again, it's an rp-pvp server, which I stated is going to be more balanced than any normal pvp server and is a special case.

You stated other PVP servers are more balanced than Jung Ma. Then you used numbers from PVE servers to prove it.

Slanted. Not digging it. Moving on, back on topic.

 

This is what you said in your OP:

 

The downside is that the republic population will drop even lower than it currently is on pvp and rppvp servers (2:1 ratio, at best). Get ready for an even bigger ghost town.

 

2:1, at best.

I easily debunked this by showing that for even one of the PvP servers you mentioned, figures were better than your '2:1 at best', by presenting hard data that showed it to be 2:3 for that server.

So who's the real BS artist and dramaqueen here, trying to emphasise his whiny complaining by coming up with wild, out-of-touch-with-reality figures?

 

 

And you got this "cold hard data" from where exactly?

 

Anyone who looked at the guild numbers before release knew about the population imbalance. There are more Empire than Republic on just about every single server. You're wrong and you should stop.

 

It's more than a little obvious to anyone who's spent any significant amount of time in the game. Get out of her with your fake "cold hard data" that you pulled out of your rear.

 

Another drama queen who loves to indulge in gut-feeling based whining

 

I did ingame population counts, something you might want to try do yourself instead of relying on some vague gut feeling all the time. There's nothing fake about player numbers when you can actually count them yourselves, at least for everyone who has learnt how to count that is, of course.

Edited January 5, 2012 by dyves

[montanabrand]

daoc (dark age of camelot) got it right with having 3 factions. It was a heavy pvp game though so it's comparing apples to oranges on that point. Still though the 3 factions would always balance themselves out because 2 would always team up and gang up on the 1 stronger faction. Tides change though and pretty soon your faction was on top and around and around we'd go.

[TUXs]

PvP balances itself over time.

 

If world PvP is what players want, they'll reroll (in time) to achieve it.

 

Relax. Games only been out 2-1/2 weeks.

 

 

However, as one poster said on the front page, this is the innate problem with a 2 faction system. A Mercenary faction, as a 3rd faction, would have alleviated this problem before it became an issue.

 

 

edit: DOH! Guy above me beat me

Edited January 5, 2012 by TUXs

[fungihoujo]

What a vile, pathetic and vitriolic rant. Had that one bottled up for a few years, did you?

 

Let's just neglect that most of what you wrote - particularly about Republic players insulting Empire players - had nothing to do with the post you were responding to or really any post in this thread (save the post just above me, it seems). Let's also forget that faction rivalries exist on both sides, and generally include absurd accusations about age or station.

 

THERE IS A BALANCE PROBLEM. It needs to be fixed because of real in-game consequences. If you take any suggestion as an affront to your sensibilities then so be it. PvP servers will continue to be broken until BioWare takes action in some way.

 

"And to me, that sums up the typical Vampire, Emo, WoW-head, Empire player. He fits the stereotype to a T. All the angsty uppity fools that take games way too seriously and used WoW's PvP to define who they are as people seem to flock to the Empire. "

 

 

This may not have been the post I answered, but it's pretty much the norm on the general forum- go ahead, look at the general forum, look at the pvp forum- do you see Republic members trying to talk people into supporting their side... or do you see them making their side look awful?

 

You ask for BW to fix the problem, to give you incentives and penalize the awful, horrible sith for wanting to play the side they wanted to play.

 

The sides are balanced- the numbers are not, but what exactly do you want? Yes, sith look awesome, they also look like sith- jedi are wearing the armoured robes that we expect jedi to wear- it's not BW's fault that jedi haven't traditionally worn flashy peacock helmets and neon dresses- which is ironic because the SI outfits were the constant object of ridicule for months after the first screenies- yet now they're the reason why the class is so overplayed?

 

 

So I ask, can you deny that Republic threads asking for nerfs, claiming sith are children and emo and vampires or whatever, saying that the mirrored classes are grossly imbalanced due to how the animations look are commonplace?

 

Can you deny that the Republic is making their side look like a bad decision to play- constantly talking about how every aspect of the side is worse than the sith side?

 

Can you deny that filling the forum with such complaints is going to deter players from playing the Republic?

 

 

Do you truly think BW can do anything, short of forcing players to go to the other side, to get players to play the Republic if the Republic is doing everything it can to make their side look horrible?

 

 

Of course you do, my bad, after all saying such things makes me vile, pathetic and vitriolic. Well, keep on hating every sith that comes your way, I'm sure that'll get us to roll your side.

[dyves]

daoc (dark age of camelot) got it right with having 3 factions. It was a heavy pvp game though so it's comparing apples to oranges on that point. Still though the 3 factions would always balance themselves out because 2 would always team up and gang up on the 1 stronger faction. Tides change though and pretty soon your faction was on top and around and around we'd go.

 

Unless 2 factions start to work together long-term and keep the third faction down just because they like it better that way and want to go the safer route of focusing on 1 hampered enemy instead of fighting 2-fronts wars

 

 

But you're right, a 3-faction system has an added in-built self correction mechanism that can be beneficial for the situation. However, it isn't an all-cure, if MMO history has shown something, then it is that people will find ways to 'abuse' or mold the situation so that it'll provide the most gain for the least effort. If that means 2 factions working together to bully and dominate the 3rd faction and its domains or if that means most of the major and top guilds on a FFA PvP server working together to dominate the remainder of the guilds and server, then people will do that, even if it'll provide less excitement and fun than a more equal situation.

[Arrakki]

Quite honestly, I could care less. Ive been playing a Smuggler Gunslinger on the Republic side and I love our community. Everyone is quick to help, chat is always fun, and the people you run with actually know how to play there class

 

I rolled an Imperial IA Operative a few days ago so I could start leveling an ALT for our Cross Faction Guild. I logged in to a seemingly normal SWTOR day with my blaster ready. I went to find a group for BT once I reached level 10 (Only takes 2 hours) and was first thrown into a group of seemingly all 13 year olds. (Understandable, I have a younger brother who plays an Inquisitor and he simply thinks the DS options are hilarious.) My suspicions were confirmed soon after the Tank and the Off tank began having a temper tantrum over who "rightfully" deserved the piece of heavy armor that dropped. (Honestly, this is a flashpoint, not a raid.)

 

 

After that I did several more runs with what all seemed like pre-teens and soon found myself in Dromand Khass. Later in General chat I noticed a player asking for help on a certain boss. Due to my low level I would be unable to assist him, however I did see several people simply tell him in General "L2 play your class noob."

 

 

My gosh, I understand what MMO communities can be like, but that behavior almost out classed the players who played Horde on WoW.

 

If these are all the players left, by all means, let them stay there

 

Quite honestly, I could care less. Ive been playing a Bounty Hunter Powertech on the Empire side and I love our community. Everyone is quick to help, chat is always fun, and the people you run with actually know how to play there class

 

I rolled a Smuggler Gunslinger a few days ago so I could start leveling an ALT for our Cross Faction Guild. I logged in to a seemingly normal SWTOR day with my blaster ready. I went to find a group for Esseles once I reached level 10 (Only takes 2 hours) and was first thrown into a group of seemingly all 13 year olds. My suspicions were confirmed soon after the Tank and the Off tank began having a temper tantrum over who "rightfully" deserved the piece of heavy armor that dropped. (Honestly, this is a flashpoint, not a raid.)

 

 

After that I did several more runs with what all seemed like pre-teens and soon found myself in Coruscant. Later in General chat I noticed a player asking for help on a certain boss. Due to my low level I would be unable to assist him, however I did see several people simply tell him in General "L2 play your class noob."

 

 

My gosh, I understand what MMO communities can be like, but that behavior almost out classed the players who played Alliance on WoW.

 

If these are all the players left, by all means, let them stay there, alone.

[Mrshush]

I can give you two reasons right now that I've heard from my casual friends ( we all play Republic ):

 

1 - Imperial spaceships look cooler than their Republic counterparts

 

2 - Imperial PvP/PvE armor looks cooler than Repulbic versions

 

It surprised me to hear these complaints but apparently looks do matter a lot.

 

yeah dunno. need a bigger sampling of opinions.

 

i think the reason its 3:1. the internets is full of wanna be evil peoples.

 

i think troopers and jedi knights armor look better then their counterparts by far. smug/agents about a tie. and both conc/sorc look like wizards (as they should).

 

ships meh. thats such a minor part of anything.

 

horde vs alliance was the same way for a while. WaR was also like this during its peak.

the allure of evil is strong for ppl. sad part is you can be good/evil on either faction

[Mrshush]

And this is exactly why nobody plays Republic. You come to the forums, representing your faction, with endless whines and complaints about every single thing, begging for nerfs and this and that for mirror classes, coming up with more inane reasons by the day for why your side is doing poorly, all of which have to do with favourtism or sith players being childish players who couldn't play their way out of a cookie jar...

 

 

Well guess what people see, a forum full of Republic whiners- I warned you people for years before the game came out because the Republic whinefest was already starting its gears back then that if you kept on degrading your side by making it look like every aspect, including the community, was garbage, you were going to face the consequences- and look at what happened, you are slowly driving out what support you have, and you really think that insulting the Imperial players and belittling them is going to make them want to play with you?

 

Let's see, play on my side where people are mature and take matches win or loss without more than maybe one sour apple throwing insults, where everyone is positive about the game and regularly talk about how much fun they're having... or go to the side that is always insulting me for liking sith, to the side that has 90% of the first page of General Forum covered with 'nerf sith' and 'republic sucks, signed republic players' threads.

 

That's such a tough decision.

 

Good lord why do you think nobody wants to play Republic? Even the staunch 'Republic supporters' make it sound like a death sentence. Do you honestly, HONESTLY, want servers to be balanced? Well if so PROVE IT, because nothing is hurting the Republic more right now than the Republic community.

 

hey it sounds like why a lot of ppl leave general chat and dislike the community on the sith.

 

but then again that could just be MY SERVER. cuz not all servers have the same community, but making sweeping generalizations about 100+ servers cuz of experience on one, maybe even two or three, is enough to base factual evidence.

during peak times station has 3:1 on my server its upsetting.

 

the only balance complaint ive heard ppl talk about, which was also complained about in beta. was the conc rock toss vs sorc lighting. 1having travel time vs instant. dont see the big problem both have benifits, conc doing some combo bursting sorc getting a last hit off before dieing, kill stealing, etc.

 

oh well haters gonna hate

hate hate hate hate hate.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Mrshush

[Auxili]

And while it is mostly the players faults for dog-piling onto one faction, the guys at Bioware have to take responsibility for the imbalances in not just the aesthetic appearances of the factions, but the inequality of the animations for the mirror classes that make a big difference in PvP.

 

Agreed, good post overall.

[krameriffic]

I don't care about the faction imbalance beyond the fact that it's hard to get groups together as republic due to the lack of players. That is something that's only gonna get worse, especially during the leveling process.

[Finaly]

2 factions work in other games too.... you just need a few servers which can handle more people at the same time and not many servers.... my server always has a queue and i barely see other people (except on the fleet) just double or tripple the caps and stop that stupid sharding.... Edited January 5, 2012 by Finaly

[FuryNL]

Exactly. And there's no mention from Bioware that they are working to fix any of this.

 

The Empire claims to be all about PVP, but they simply want empire-versus-empire warzones. The current population imbalance - and the imbalance after more same-faction warzones are added - will result in World PvP not existing, and no republic-versus-empire PvP.

 

In short, Empire players will have no Republic to kill, either in the open world or in warzones, if they keep pushing for a higher and higher playercount (through things like more same-faction warzones).

 

No world pvp, no republic-versus-empire. That is what SWTOR pvp will be all about, if you guys want all pvpers to roll empire and bloat the faction's population.

 

 

By adding more same-faction warzones, Bioware is expressing they want this too. Which is confusing, which is why this thread was created: to get some confirmation that Bioware is fixing this.

 

If this happens, it's reason for me to definitely check out GW2 ;p

[fungihoujo]

hey it sounds like why a lot of ppl leave general chat and dislike the community on the sith.

 

but then again that could just be MY SERVER. cuz not all servers have the same community, but making sweeping generalizations about 100+ servers cuz of experience on one, maybe even two or three, is enough to base factual evidence.

during peak times station has 3:1 on my server its upsetting.

 

the only balance complaint ive heard ppl talk about, which was also complained about in beta. was the conc rock toss vs sorc lighting. 1having travel time vs instant. dont see the big problem both have benifits, conc doing some combo bursting sorc getting a last hit off before dieing, kill stealing, etc.

 

oh well haters gonna hate

hate hate hate hate hate.

 

There, then there's nothing to complain about I guess, since according to you the balance is just fine.

 

I'm not referring to the Republic on my server either- my server is just fine. I'm referring to the countless posts of Republic players complaining about the Republic... and Sith... and game... and BW favortism, etc.... basically anything under the sun.

 

But please, tell the people complaining about the Republic ghost town to stop generalizing the Republic and how 'awful' it is. I don't need to know this, I'm sith and have no complaints at all- fantastic community, always people there, get a variety of pvp... if it's fine on my server, it seems the problem is more of a community of other servers being the issue, hmm?

 

No, I guess not, I imagine we'll see people clunking heads together guessing every which way at what the problem could be with why people don't play Republic- as long as that problem isn't players of the Republic themselves- it's most likely those dasterdly sith and BW ruining your day.