Auxili Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Page 46~ Edit: Now that these Ilum changes have been implemented, I'd just like to say: We told you so. While this thread began as a discussion about world pvp faction imbalance on pvp and rp-pvp servers, it has grown and evolved greatly. Compared to Empire players, the experience Republic players have regarding Republic PVE, Republic Economies, and Republic PVP is unsustainable if not dealt with. All three aspects of the game are vitally important to both players and the developers; neither takes precedent over the other. It is up to Bioware to incentivize the Republic faction and support the idea of a balanced SWTOR that is a long-term-success. It is not good if Bioware chooses to make Empire the de-facto faction - the only one that will provide a true MMO experience with players to trade, pve, and pvp together without the need of the opposing faction. We all urge Bioware to take a second look at how important faction population is to SWTOR in both the immediate and long term. We urge them to make a statement concerning their plans moving forward. Thank you for reading this collection of experiences from the Republic playerbase. ---- To those who rerolled Republic to get better warzone queues, you may have acted too fast. Today Bioware stated they'll be adding more same-faction Warzones. This will help alleviate the Empire queue times - empire players can play more than hutball and queue up faster. The downside is that the republic population will drop even lower than it currently is on pvp and rppvp servers (2:1 ratio, at best). Get ready for an even bigger ghost town. Currently, the promise of better pvp queues is the only benefit the republic has over the empire on these servers. Without this incentive, people will have no reason to reroll republic, get faster queues, and help out the underdog side out. I know Bioware is aware of the faction imbalance and how it will impact world pvp, and the republic faction as a whole on pvp servers, negatively. I mean, they must be - Ilum would be a huge nightmare if they let Empire zerg the Republic. I'm just curious what they have in mind to make republic an attractive choice for pvp players and guilds. Has anyone heard anything? Thanks for taking the time to read this. -- EDIT: Taugrim has spoken on this subject and explained the circumstances. Fast forward to 1h:27mhttp://www.twitch.tv/taugrim/b/304575438 <-- I urge everyone to see this to understand what is at stake. "SWTOR doesn't feel like an MMO to the republic players on PVP and RP-PVP servers." I'd like to post this from another thread, as it was well written and informative: Let's look at why the deck is stacked against this game: EA's Track Record Warhammer was left to die. They didn't have the expertise to fix that game and when it became apparent that it couldn't be salvaged, they diverted its development team to SWTOR. The fate of SWTOR is in the same hands of the people who tried to save Warhammer, but ultimately couldn't. James Ohlen's Attitude James is incredibly smug and passive-aggressive. Look at the Eurogamer article that's been referenced many times on these forums. Gabe Amatangelo Doesn't Get PvP It's not that Ilum was poorly implemented; it was poorly designed. There's a difference. A good idea can have a poor implementation. A poor idea, regardless of its implementation, can never turn out well. Ilum's flaws demonstrate that Gabe simply doesn't understand the dynamic among player behavior, faction imbalances, and incentives. Broken/Missing Game Systems The fact that things like (but not limited to) unresponsive combat, static UI, and low frame rate exist post-release are horrifying. These are things that should have been identified during the game's early design phase. Since they weren't addressed in the distant past, we can only assume that James Ohlen and his team of designers didn't view them as a priority. Furthermore, it demonstrates that they simply don't "get it." And this is worrying because any fixes being implemented by a team that doesn't "get it" is likely to fail again. Edited January 19, 2012 by Auxili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 A great post someone made in another thread: After a week of fleet comparison my server is at about a 2.5/3:1 I ended up rerolling my 50 on the republic side due to my disdain for huttball. While that fixes my pvp problem, the fact is, this is now impacting the leveling and pve side of the game. Like most US East servers we're always "heavy" in the evening, but even so the lopsided population makes finding flashpoint groups very difficult. Usually if you run a flashpoint as republic you are the only ones running that flashpoint as you can tell by the upper left social numbers. This is without a doubt swtor's biggest longevity problem and I haven't read anything suggesting they have a plan to remedy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDozen Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It is a glaring issue. I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking at reasons for the lopsided pops. Two faction games seem to always have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 You either choose:#1- More empire-versus-empire warzonesor#2- World pvp, a healthy republic faction on pvp servers, and empire-versus-republic pvp. But you cannot have both. If bioware gives us #1 without any benefit for Republic pvpers, then we can say goodbye at any chance of having #2. To those who wants the republic faction to have an active community on pvp servers, please do not underestimate the effect more same-faction warzones will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Since when is the Republic side a ghost town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Since when is the Republic side a ghost town? It will be, is the point. There's currenlty half as many on pvp servers, even less on many normal pvp servers. This will only get worse, since those who rerolled republic for pvp purposes can go back to empire since they'll have many same-faction warzones, rather than just hutball. All explained in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforate Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It is a glaring issue. I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking at reasons for the lopsided pops. Two faction games seem to always have this problem. I can give you two reasons right now that I've heard from my casual friends ( we all play Republic ): 1 - Imperial spaceships look cooler than their Republic counterparts 2 - Imperial PvP/PvE armor looks cooler than Repulbic versions It surprised me to hear these complaints but apparently looks do matter a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I can give you two reasons right now that I've heard from my casual friends ( we all play Republic ): 1 - Imperial spaceships look cooler than their Republic counterparts 2 - Imperial PvP/PvE armor looks cooler than Repulbic versions It surprised me to hear these complaints but apparently looks do matter a lot. It really is up to Bioware to decide if they want to exacerbate the population difference on pvp servers (cater to the empire faction and allow the republic faction to dwindle), OR if they want to help make the republic an attractive choice for pvpers. Currently, players are rerolling republic for better queue times, thus making that faction stronger. Republic on pvp servers now have a better economy and more players to do flashpoints with. Currently, the queue times are the only attractive pvp perk the republic has. Empire still has the players and pvp community. Bioware seems to want to encorage players to stay on the empire side. I'm not sure why this is, but it serves to make the empire stronger than the republic (moreso than it already is, pop-wise). I still have hope that Bioware is going to fix this problem soon. But I really have nothing to go on. Currently, all I have is the recent news that bioware wants to strengthen the empire pvp experience. Edited January 5, 2012 by Auxili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I saw an overwhelming amount of people leaning Empire pre-release, so I rolled Republic. No circumstance before/presently will cause me to re-roll Empire. Edited January 5, 2012 by IIII-IIII-IIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why would I wanna play kindergarten+highschool aka emopire ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsbond Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Servers look like ghost towns anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokosan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 maybe making it so republic didnt have all the lame races would have helped? green people, twi'lek, or humans with blindfolds? Or zabrak (but not the cool color). Gee, i wonder why people don't want to roll republic? I can be darth maul... or a human with something on their face. Overall, the races and customization of this game is shameful, but did they HAVE to give empire all the cooler races? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushons Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hmm, I have throughly enjoyed my time as republic. I have had no issue with there being a lack of republic players on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Let's just say that a guy named Professor Walsh is rubbing his hands and going "Good. Goooood." Well, actually he'll be saying "told you so!". ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errrkill Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Just play imperial with everyone else. It's obvious now that faction balance is unimportant. Aside from that things can't be rebalanced until server mergers which won't happen until the mass exodous. Anyone ever play Warhammer? Edited January 5, 2012 by Errrkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomness Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The Empire has a lot of things that make it aesthetically more attractive. Maybe xp boosts for the less populated side or something. I don't know if you can send mail cross-faction (I doubt it), but people who have multiple chars with leveled crew skills are going to be hard to get to change... they have a lot invested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thradar Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) To those who rerolled Republic to get better queues, you may have acted too fast. Yes. So there were queues during launch. /shocking Pretty much everyone knew it would die down. Some people in my guild were like "Let's move, I had to wait 20 minutes!!11!1!" Oh Emm Gee 20 minutes? :eek: :eek: I said "Wait, it will die down." Now the queues are gone and we're at very heavy most of the time. Edited January 5, 2012 by Thradar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameirus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Today Bioware stated they'll be adding more same-faction Warzones. This will help alleviate the Empire queue times - empire players can play more than hutball and queue up faster. And there it is. First it was no lfg, then it was no server wide chat. next came no server forums. And now, now, its the complete and total write off of one half of their game. With this move BW admit that they have failed to make 2 attractive factions. that world pvp does not matter and will never exist, and that anti-faction rivalry is dead. Welcome to SWTOR, where your emenies are your own faction. Enjoy the community... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoXPCS Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why would I wanna play kindergarten+highschool aka emopire ? Well it's certainly not that. Besides "Good is dumb." However I would like to point out that your narrow minded assumptions SCREAM your age and level of understanding. Just FYI for any future decisions you make in general that deal with real life scenarios. You won't do very well if you're not already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSykes Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I can give you two reasons right now that I've heard from my casual friends ( we all play Republic ): 1 - Imperial spaceships look cooler than their Republic counterparts 2 - Imperial PvP/PvE armor looks cooler than Repulbic versions It surprised me to hear these complaints but apparently looks do matter a lot. Indeed. I hit 50 Empire side, then rerolled Republic for better queues PvP wise.... and the gear looks horrible over here, Empire is far more awesome and if Empire is getting more Warzones to partake in that isn't Huttball for same faction... I'll drop Republic, just like the rest of the guild I came over Republic side with. Edited January 5, 2012 by JSykes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Empire will be the only necessary faction on pvp servers. You'll get the full warzone pvp experience, you'll steamroll on illum, and there won't be any reason to go republic. These are all caused by same-faction warzones. If people want better queues, you gotta balance the factions out. If you dont WANT to balance the factions, then you'll have crappier queues. However, the ridiculous faction imbalance is causing Bioware to add more same-faction warzones, which will kill the republic faction on pvp servers, especially in world pvp and economy-wise. For example:Taugrim (taugrim.com) and his whole guild rerolled republic due to queues. However, if there were many same-faction warzones, he would not have switched factions.The same can be said for many republic pvpers and pvp guilds. Bioware wants the empire to have a better pvp experience, and they're implementing more same-faction warzones because of this.However, they have not done anyone to support the republic and their ridiculously small population count (compared to empire) on pvp servers. Why does bioware feel the need to support Empire pvp, but not Republic pvp? Edited January 5, 2012 by Auxili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 And there it is. First it was no lfg, then it was no server wide chat. next came no server forums. And now, now, its the complete and total write off of one half of their game. With this move BW admit that they have failed to make 2 attractive factions. that world pvp does not matter and will never exist, and that anti-faction rivalry is dead. Welcome to SWTOR, where your emenies are your own faction. Enjoy the community... Precisely. Does no one else see the problem with having 5:1 faction balance on world pvp servers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Precisely. Does no one else see the problem with having 5:1 faction balance on world pvp servers? Smart people don't play republic on pvp servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Smart people don't play republic on pvp servers. Do smart people expect to have Empire versus Empire world pvp? Bioware is going to spend time improving Illum, and it will fail. They'll ignore the fact that they're single-handedly making population worse by supporting Empire-only pvp. They'll chalk it up to "people dont want to do world pvp" and this game will end up like wow pvp-wise. Please Bioware, I have hope but you've got to say something on this issue. Another question for Bioware: Bioware is fixing pvp server woes for the Empire by adding more same-faction warzones. But what is being done to help pvp server woes for the Republic? Edited January 5, 2012 by Auxili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhero Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well - this was bound to happen, given that the old republich is basically all about the Sith Empire. Won't get fixed unless BW imposes the rule of two :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts