Junkkia Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hero Engine was originally made for a MMO called Hero's Journey that was supposed to release in 2004-2005...however the development company ran out of cash and decided to start selling the engine instead. Thats why the engine feels so outdated. well that explain a lot. Buy outdate engine and try make best mmo with it:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekkio Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Wow... we sure have alot of professional programmers here. You really are programmers yes? Because otherwise theres no way you can tell what can and cant be done with this engine. From the year i studied programming i learned that everything is possible and theres always a way to make your code more eficient. Maybe its the engine, or maybe its just a design choice they chose to rectify? We cant really tell until bioware tells us. I actually do programming as a profession. The issue really isn't so much the engine, it's that we really have no idea the terms of the engine licensing. Does Bioware have the right to modify the engines source code, or do they need the original developers to provide them updated code to fix "engine" issues (graphics, response time, etc.). Another thing any professional programmer will agree upon is trying to modify and work with someone elses source code more often then not is a royal pain. You run into issues such as lack of documentation, poor code quality, having to figure out someone else's train of thought (why is there a triple embedded for loop here...). From some quick Googling, the makers of the HeroEngine never actually put out a game using their own engine. The company actually folded and then were acquired by Idea Fabrik in 2010 (this is well into star wars development). Considering the turmoil an acquisition typically is, Bioware is probably using a very old version of the HeroEngine which is probably barely supported. Now it makes sense why there's no high resolution textures, antialiasing, DX10/11 support, or any other remotely modern graphics feature. Edited January 5, 2012 by Spekkio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylixav Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 At least they can be fixed. Well, I certainly hope you're right. But so far there hasn't been any indication of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well, I certainly hope you're right. But so far there hasn't been any indication of that. I think there's plenty of indication, seeing as how they've acknowledged a bulk of the combat responsiveness complaints and are sorting it out. It's not easy as flipping a switch and calling it a day. I'm confident that they wouldn't build an MMO on a shoddy engine they couldn't modify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmerkin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have had no problems with the engine, it feels just like any other engine I have used in mmo's though perhaps a little better in places.. what are the issues with it? Ability delay does not affect me, nor fps loss that others are having (running on max settings myself). I would much rather bioware spent the money on plot and character development / content etc.. than on building a new engine from scratch. cant really think of anything missing from it that needs to be there, someone enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesha Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think there's plenty of indication, seeing as how they've acknowledged a bulk of the combat responsiveness complaints and are sorting it out. It's not easy as flipping a switch and calling it a day. I'm confident that they wouldn't build an MMO on a shoddy engine they couldn't modify. The reason most people are upset is because chances are that fixing the most brutal issues atm (combat delay/fps issues/textures settings) will take MONTHS and lets face it, we are paying for a broken game atm which in all honesty is pissing me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I actually do programming as a profession. The issue really isn't so much the engine, it's that we really have no idea the terms of the engine licensing. Does Bioware have the right to modify the engines source code, or do they need the original developers to provide them updated code to fix "engine" issues (graphics, response time, etc.). Another thing any professional programmer will agree upon is trying to modify and work with someone elses source code more often then not is a royal pain. You run into issues such as lack of documentation, poor code quality, having to figure out someone else's train of thought (why is there a triple embedded for loop here...). From some quick Googling, the makers of the HeroEngine never actually put out a game using their own engine. The company actually folded and then were acquired by Idea Fabrik in 2010 (this is well into star wars development). Considering the turmoil an acquisition typically is, Bioware is probably using a very old version of the HeroEngine which is probably barely supported. Now it makes sense why there's no high resolution textures, antialiasing, DX10/11 support, or any other remotely modern graphics feature. /sigh Once again they aren't using an old commercial version. They are using their very own version of the engine that no one but Bioware has. Only Bioware has it because Bioware is the one that Modified the base Hero engine into what it is today. I actually asked Georg Zoller at SDCC if having a good deal of experience with the Hero engine would help a potential applicant; his response was "Not really since we have altered the engine so much ...it really isn't the Hero Engine anymore." Edited January 5, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have had no problems with the engine, it feels just like any other engine I have used in mmo's though perhaps a little better in places.. what are the issues with it? Ability delay does not affect me, nor fps loss that others are having (running on max settings myself). I would much rather bioware spent the money on plot and character development / content etc.. than on building a new engine from scratch. cant really think of anything missing from it that needs to be there, someone enlighten me? Yeah, I'm not feeling any of the negative effects myself. I'm by no means saying that nobody else does, but I think some people's hardware handles it better. It's probably poorly optimized for certain configurations at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 /sigh Once again they aren't using an old commercial version. They are using there very own version of the engine that no one but Bioware has. Only Bioware has it because Bioware is the one that Modified the base Hero engine into what it is today. I actually asked Georg Zoller at SDCC if having a good deal of experience with the Hero engine would help a potential applicant; his response was "Not really since we have altered the engine so much ...it really isn't the Hero Engine anymore." Can't find a source for that quote anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmerkin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The reason most people are upset is because chances are that fixing the most brutal issues atm (combat delay/fps issues/textures settings) will take MONTHS and lets face it, we are paying for a broken game atm which in all honesty is pissing me off. broken how? textures are nice enough, game works, Im getting no ability delay, no fps issues..... see a number of people harping on about this but not something that affects me in any way, yes sure there have been a few bugs but nothing worthy of major screaming as of yet. sounds like you need an upgrade more than they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Can't find a source for that quote anywhere? You can't quote what someone says directly to you; but there is plenty of information about how Bioware modified the Hero engine floating about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesha Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 broken how? textures are nice enough, game works, Im getting no ability delay, no fps issues..... see a number of people harping on about this but not something that affects me in any way, yes sure there have been a few bugs but nothing worthy of major screaming as of yet. sounds like you need an upgrade more than they do Just bought a new 1200 euro costing pc, you have zero idea of wth you're talking about and ''im getting no ability delay'' proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The reason most people are upset is because chances are that fixing the most brutal issues atm (combat delay/fps issues/textures settings) will take MONTHS and lets face it, we are paying for a broken game atm which in all honesty is pissing me off. The game isn't broken, it has issues. If it pisses you off that much just stop paying and come back if and when they make the changes you want. If something I was paying for that was meant to be fun but was 'pissing me off' I would stop paying for it. Edited January 5, 2012 by Mandrax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 /sigh Once again they aren't using an old commercial version. They are using their very own version of the engine that no one but Bioware has. Only Bioware has it because Bioware is the one that Modified the base Hero engine into what it is today. I actually asked Georg Zoller at SDCC if having a good deal of experience with the Hero engine would help a potential applicant; his response was "Not really since we have altered the engine so much ...it really isn't the Hero Engine anymore." This needs to be repeated again and again. Very few people in this thread have any idea what they are talking about. A lot of arm chair developers with very little to add to the conversation. Unless you were on their team and picked/modified the engine, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am very confident the hero engine met or exceeded the project team's requirments and CTQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmerkin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah, I'm not feeling any of the negative effects myself. I'm by no means saying that nobody else does, but I think some people's hardware handles it better. It's probably poorly optimized for certain configurations at the moment. well to be fair my rig is fairly powerful and brand new, windows 7 performance score of 7.9 which is as high as it gets if I heard correctly. Game does however run smoothly on my 5 year old rig as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesha Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The game isn't broken, it has issues. If it pisses you off that much just stop paying and come back if and when they make the changes you want. If something I was paying for was meant to be fun but was 'pissing me off' I would stop paying for it. Only way to pay was with a gamecard in my country so not like i can just ''stop paying'' considering i have 2 months wasted now. Edited January 5, 2012 by mesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You can't quote what someone says directly to you; but there is plenty of information about how Bioware modified the Hero engine floating about. Said directly to you? Like in a live-chat? If you can dig up some sources to prove what you say, I think it'll put a lot of people at ease. There used to be hundreds of threads complaining about sharding, and I always had three articles I would link detailing how sharding was a temporary measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmerkin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just bought a new 1200 euro costing pc, you have zero idea of wth you're talking about and ''im getting no ability delay'' proves it. no idea what you are going on about, but I am not having the issues that have been reporting with the engine... trust me if I was I would be screaming bloody murder. well done for spending so much on something that apparently from your tune doesnt work correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This needs to be repeated again and again. Very few people in this thread have any idea what they are talking about. A lot of arm chair developers with very little to add to the conversation. Unless you were on their team and picked/modified the engine, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am very confident the hero engine met or exceeded the project team's requirments and CTQs. Yeah I have pretty much stopped trying to explain it...all I get is insulted and the Mods have seemed to stop even trying to hold back the trolling...it amazes me how awesome the in game community is and how really terrible the forums are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesha Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 well done for spending so much on something that apparently from your tune doesnt work correctly. My pc works fantastic, well done for again not knowing wth you're talking about, this game (or rather this engine) is flawed beyond believe and the people defending it are the same people who think Bioware should lay off the fixes and focus on putting more romances in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMESUN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 if he speaks the truth, then im kinda upset.. didnt think BioW would go throwback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylixav Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Game does however run smoothly on my 5 year old rig as well. There is absolutely zero chance that this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah I have pretty much stopped trying to explain it...all I get is insulted and the Mods have seemed to stop even trying to hold back the trolling...it amazes me how awesome the in game community is and how really terrible the forums are. If you give people a source to verify your claims, it makes it a lot easier for people to believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Said directly to you? Like in a live-chat? If you can dig up some sources to prove what you say, I think it'll put a lot of people at ease. There used to be hundreds of threads complaining about sharding, and I always had three articles I would link detailing how sharding was a temporary measure. No like standing in line waiting to play SWTOR at SDCC the devs were everywhere. All anyone has to do is Google the development of SWTOR there is a lot of information on how SWTOR is built on a highly modified version of the Hero Engine. Edited January 5, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wow... we sure have alot of professional programmers here. You really are programmers yes? Because otherwise theres no way you can tell what can and cant be done with this engine. From the year i studied programming i learned that everything is possible and theres always a way to make your code more eficient. Maybe its the engine, or maybe its just a design choice they chose to rectify? We cant really tell until bioware tells us. If you have: 1. The permission/rights to do so (just because you use an engine doesn't mean you can modify it). 2. The Developers (engine developers not MMO developers) to do so. 3. The money to pay for the Developers to do so. You need all three to do what you suggest, it's unlikely that SWTOR has all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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