WoW was released 7 YEARS ago - It is NOT the standard for MMO Release

[Mookz]

I am sick of people bringing up WoW being released with bugs as a rebuttal to people saying how buggy SWTOR's release is. Let's bring up some facts:

 

 

• WoW was released nearly a DECADE ago.
  
• WoW did not have nearly as much resources as SWTOR
  
• WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game.
  

 

There are probably many more, but this is enough to make your argument a moot point. Comparing WoW release to SWTOR release is utterly retarded, as the difference in not only time, resources, etc. is massive, but the fact SWTOR has a game so huge to simply "copy/paste" from (which they did, you can't deny it, unfortunately they didn't do it in the areas that count) that is 100% proven to WORK, yet didn't take advantage of it, just shows poor development. They took bits and pieces of a working system and instead of making it their own, literally left it as bits and pieces. That creates bugs.

[_Verja_]

I agree with you OP, but people are still going to compare wow at launch to this game. It makes it seem like TOR is a lot better. People seem to forget time.

 

It's also like comparing what we have now to what WoW had then. That comparison is always dumb, because TOR isn't going up against WoW from seven years ago. It's going against wow today.

 

But fanboys will be fanboys I suppose.

[Black_Rabbit]

You get a cookie for making the 3rd "wow" themed thread on the first page, and a medal for making the exact thread which is already on the main page.

 

I am not saying, defend/attack this or the other game, but can we please drop the wowophobia?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Black_Rabbit

[Xugos]

You're absolutely correct, OP.

[gangbot]

agreed.

[ZEnONFX]

Don't forget to come back in 7 years to see how Swtor has evolved now

[dakoth]

• WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game.
  

 

Actually, EQ was twice as good as WoW was at release. More, even. I quit WoW and went back to EQ for months, half a year or so, before WoW actually caught up.

 

Just thought I'd set the record straight on that. WoW didn't start at the top.

Edited January 4, 2012 by dakoth

[Grooog]

comparing WOW to SWTOR is retarded OP

 

and your points are invalid sorry. Copy - Paste doesnt' create bugs seriously learn to use computers..

 

copy - paste is well ..... copy-paste

 

 

If you copy paste code from another program into your own, you will have bugs unless you're a gosu programmer.

 

L2Code

[azyrr]

Trust me, WOW launch and TOR launch do NOT compare.

If we were comparing wow 1.0 to TOR 1.0 wow would lose miserably.

 

So i agree with you, WoW vanilla launch is not the medium TOR launch should be compared against, and guess what? It really isn't (xcept for a few people now and then).

 

BUT (and this is a bit but), you gotta realise that some features can't be compared becuase of wow's head start (mostly balance issues, and problems with HOW things work = need XP in that field).

 

What you can compare is ; Features (NOT necessarily content), lack of this and that (guild options, banking options etc etc).

 

So we really should seperate these two issues before comparing the two games. If it falls under "the general way things work" then it's not fair to compare and it should end there,

 

IF it is a feature that even WoW has then TOR shouldhave it too and should be compared imo,

Having said all of that, LFD imo is not a feature that they didn't implement bıut rather a desicion on game system (and i highly approve of it).

[Xugos]

Trust me, WOW launch and TOR launch do NOT compare.

If we were comparing wow 1.0 to TOR 1.0 wow would lose miserably.

 

So i agree with you, WoW vanilla launch is not the medium TOR launch should be compared against, and guess what? It really isn't (xcept for a few people now and then).

 

BUT (and this is a bit but), you gotta realise that some features can't be compared becuase of wow's head start (mostly balance issues, and problems with HOW things work = need XP in that field).

 

What you can compare is ; Features (NOT necessarily content), lack of this and that (guild options, banking options etc etc).

 

So we really should seperate these two issues before comparing the two games. If it falls under "the general way things work" then it's not fair to compare and it should end there,

 

IF it is a feature that even WoW has then TOR shouldhave it too and should be compared imo,

Having said all of that, LFD imo is not a feature that they didn't implement bıut rather a desicion on game system (and i highly approve of it).

 

 

WoW's launch was much more clean than SW:TOR's launch in terms of technical issues and bugs.

[MoraiKSC]

I am sick of people bringing up WoW being released with bugs as a rebuttal to people saying how buggy SWTOR's release is. Let's bring up some facts:

 

• WoW was released nearly a DECADE ago.
  
• WoW did not have nearly as much resources as SWTOR
  
• WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game.
  

There are probably many more, but this is enough to make your argument a moot point. Comparing WoW release to SWTOR release is utterly retarded, as the difference in not only time, resources, etc. is massive, but the fact SWTOR has a game so huge to simply "copy/paste" from (which they did, you can't deny it, unfortunately they didn't do it in the areas that count) that is 100% proven to WORK, yet didn't take advantage of it, just shows poor development. They took bits and pieces of a working system and instead of making it their own, literally left it as bits and pieces. That creates bugs.

 

What does WoW being a 7 years old matter. unless you are suggesting bioware should have been trying to reverse engineer WoW's code for that entire time.

 

Blizzard had HUGE amount of resources people were going crazy for WoW. I bet resources are pretty similar if you factor inflation. but if you have data to show otherwise I'd consider it.

 

Bioware had nothing to use as a "perfect standard" either. WoW is far from it. did they borrow some woW ideas? Certainly. but much of it is more like an adoption from KOTOR. And WoW borrowed almost everything from other games, sure they cleaned them up but nothing was really inovative at WoW's launch. the fact that they borrowed ideas didn't make it less buggy, why should it for Bioware?

 

The only way it could possibly help them anyways is if they had some kind of corporate espionage going on and had working code from Blizzard that they could "copy/paste", as you say. Since they didn't, and they don't they have to code everything for themselves. Just because an idea was done before doesn't mean all your code is automatically bug free and works well together. Blizzard proved that much better than Bioware did.

 

You're facts have nothing to do with the fact that Bioware had a much smoother Launch then WoW did. Sure there are bugs, some major, but so did woW. But since you think WoW is the "perfect" standard I suggest you go back to playing that. Because the last thing SWTOR needs to do is try to emulate WoW more.

[oursacrifice]

Doesn't matter when it was released. WoW is currently a 2011/2012 game. When you release a new MMO, you aren't competing with WoW's release, you are competing with WoW in its current form.

[FatherJeffrey]

Yeah, DW game will be a ghost town after 1-2 months.

 

Also removed the "R" word after utterly. I got 2 warnings for using it and almost copped a ban.

 

They will find anything possible to ban players from forums that say anything negative about their trash game.

[Devlonir]

But you also cannot compare WoW now to SWTOR now. 7 years of debugging and further development on an engine you know in and out are things you notice when it comes to quality of a software product.

 

Indeed you can't forgive everything because WoW also had bugs at the start, but any product of this size will have bugs in it. What doesn't matter when it comes to it finally becoming a succesful game is if they fix them, but how they fix them and how long it takes for them to fix them.

 

The fact that SWTOR has been patching itself from day 1 is a very good sign on long-term quality assurance, and it gives me confidence. Much more than WoW's once every quarter patches with hotfixes and mini-bugfix patches coming once in a while but very sporadic.

Bioware is fixing stuff every week, both bigger and smaller bugs. This keeps me feeling a lot more like they are 'always on top of it' than Blizzard does with their 'it's done when it's done so just live with the bugs for now' attitude.

 

So.. indeed, you can't compare WoW to SWTOR, and I actually believe that in the long-run, despite current bugs, they have a better bug fixing and patching system than WoW has. And many MMO players accepted WoW's bad quality assurance and bug fixing schedule for 7 years.

[MoraiKSC]

WoW's launch was much more clean than SW:TOR's launch in terms of technical issues and bugs.

 

you must have played a completely different WOW than everyone else did.

[Skibblez]

Everyons is always going to compare the 2. Both games have good points and bad points. Fact of the matter is people are going to pick apart the games. But thats how they get polished up the game and it become a game that more and more people can enjoy.

I have enjoyed TOR much more than wow becuase it doesnt feel like a boring grind. I feel more involved in the story and characters.

[Xugos]

you must have played a completely different WOW than everyone else did.

 

You must be playing a completely different SW:TOR than everyone else is.

[azyrr]

WoW's launch was much more clean than SW:TOR's launch in terms of technical issues and bugs.

 

Repeating that lie wont change the fact it was increadibly buggy at release. It was DAMN fun in spite of it, granted - but it was FULL of bugs. Just google some and you'll come across many.

 

I joined late vanilla, so i did not experience them myself (well not the launch bugs anyway) but a lot of my friends have and i've seen a lot of info on the matter.

 

Hell even the launch of AQ was a huge mess, just check out darklegacycomics.com , there is a comic strip dedicated to the launch and a screenshot of what a mess it was (they sadly removed the SS now, pity).

 

There's no need to be so defensive about all of this really.

 

Also, we all need to realise that games having bugs at realease are not because they can be justified by other competitors launches etc. but because we as gamers and customers are getting increasingly impatient.

 

We want it now, we want it big, we want it with tons of features - but we tend to be ok with buggy launches, hence thats what the companies deliver.

[Viera]

WoW had so many bugs at release.

[Grilltusk]

SWTOR is already way more appealing than WoW, and this game isnt even an official month old.

 

The comparisons are also pointless.

Pepsi and coke are both the same ****, but I still prefer Pepsi.

 

Are we gonna compare softdrinks for the next 7 years now?

[Devlonir]

Xugos must have only been at TBC Release and not at Vanilla Release. That, or he has been injected with so much WoW fanboyism that he is blocking out the past.

 

Good example:

 

Currently, SWTOR has a bug that some people fall out of their taxi rides, making it impossible for them to go to certain places.

 

This reminded me a lot of this old gem of a WoW bug:

 

 

Just want to say.. the bugs from now, will be the silly memories we have in the future. Quit whining.

[SaltAU]

I am sick of people bringing up WoW being released with bugs as a rebuttal to people saying how buggy SWTOR's release is. Let's bring up some facts:

 

• WoW was released nearly a DECADE ago.
  
• WoW did not have nearly as much resources as SWTOR
  
• WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game.
  

There are probably many more, but this is enough to make your argument a moot point. Comparing WoW release to SWTOR release is utterly retarded, as the difference in not only time, resources, etc. is massive, but the fact SWTOR has a game so huge to simply "copy/paste" from (which they did, you can't deny it, unfortunately they didn't do it in the areas that count) that is 100% proven to WORK, yet didn't take advantage of it, just shows poor development. They took bits and pieces of a working system and instead of making it their own, literally left it as bits and pieces. That creates bugs.

 

So very true.

 

"WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game."

 

This is why I look at this game and just shake my head in bewilderment. There are no excuses! None.

Edited January 4, 2012 by SaltAU

[MoraiKSC]

The best one is leaving corrupted blood on pets and creating the worst plague in mmo history. Making it deadly to even consider venturing to a main city on many servers. Obviously that wasn't a launch issue cause it was the ZG patch, but that almost makes it worse, and hillarious. How much more game breaking can you get then "if you go to any major quest hub you will instantly die, of and so do all the npcs"

[SaltAU]

The best one is leaving corrupted blood on pets and creating the worst plague in mmo history. Making it deadly to even consider venturing to a main city on many servers. Obviously that wasn't a launch issue cause it was the ZG patch, but that almost makes it worse, and hillarious. How much more game breaking can you get then "if you go to any major quest hub you will instantly die, of and so do all the npcs"

 

That was so memorable, i loved it!

 

It could never happen in this game due to the 785 instances you would have to visit to get about a dozen players infected.

[Drake_Hound]

Such a rubbishe , WoW was released in abyssmal state , took 2-3 years for them to even fix the GCD and Ability delays and other players lagging you gameplay to pieces.

 

Sorry SWTOR will take a while to mature , but it ain´t in a poor state at all .

Just tons of bugs cause the database needs to be beter streamlined .

Also they beter check how comes quest on some people bugs out , while on others they don´t .

 

Anyway WoW launch was horrible infact first week most people hardly even could play in Europe , that was 1 month after US launch .

 

Sorry to say atleast I see enough people playing , just sadly they are the new kind of MMO players , the impatience ones .. I want it now .

But otherside 7 years of beta and development to have this many bugs that are class related slip trough , is a bit unforgiving tough .

 

First and most of all fix client server issues , that is the most important at this stage .

Cause I can really notice the client server lag that most MMO have eliminated .

That the upper levels are not bug free , is forgiven cause no game on release has 100% functional bug free endgame or areas .