Ok all this QQing about Ops/scoundrel need to stop

[Torsie]

Ignoring the overall point to the post, and its value;

 

I find it quite funny that the OP refers to how crap the classes are at 0-35 but then compares maximum hits v even level opponents in replies later on.

 

ignoring peoples points that the class becomes OP due to consumables with the argument that anyone can use them is also a bit rich, when the entire point is that the people don't see them coming and are therefore very unlikely to have used one ready for the burst. Maybe give the non-stealth character an audible warning before the class de-stealth's to even this out? I thought not....

 

I have no idea if the OP's post has merit or not, but the way the argument is set out is flawed and extremely biased to the character types in question.

 

Anyway, who gives a rats arse about the toons effectiveness while they level up? The game doesn't start until level 50.....

[Kromzor]

If you can show me one instance where an Operative burst somebody down to zero health in the first stun I would eat my words. Otherwise YOUR MAKING SH*%T UP. Only way this can come close to happening is a lvl 50 fully geard Op vs a light armor no bubble lvl 10 even then they couldnt kill him in the first stun.

 

LOL trolls... now they eat hats.

 

It happens against any class that doesn't have several pieces of lv 50 PvP gear.

[Mursie]

the class is over-powered. any delusion to the contrary is just that.

 

in a four man team with a sage that is full champ gear... and with myself guarding said sage... and challenging / force slowing a well geared equally decked out operative... the operative still sliced and diced our healer in less than 4 seconds. This is a complete joke. The class is beyond imbalanced at 1v1. but i hear the retorts "this is a team game"... that is great... put the beyond OP 1v1 class in a team... (which he had in the scen.. a pocket healer and a guard) and guess what... the OP 1v1 class is now an OP group class as well.

 

if you have no problems with ops/scoundrels.. you are playing against terrible fotm re-rolls that aren't geared and have no clue. Take a good player and hand him a shadow/assassin and he will kill alot of people. Hand that same player an operative/scoundrel and he will be an unkillable god doing at minimum 4x what he could/would do on a shadow/assassin.

 

the class is broken.

[Coolcutter]

He/she Would beable to open me and get me to over half before the nature of the stun broke. If i cc broke it, then i would get flashed and they'd move off and attempt to re stealth and set it up again, ofcourse by this time im at half or less health and running backwards with my fingers over warden and blade shield, incase i get opened again.

 

The problem being is i finally catch the bugger, and im burning them down, get it to about5 20% life and hes running hard and im trying to maintain cc and aoe area to keep him outa stealth when bang flashbanged and stealthed.

.....

.

 

So, you think we need nerfs, but even though they get you down to ~50% hp, you manage to force them to run away or die?

 

And for gods sake, a full resolve bar takes, what, 12 seconds or something to clear?

Knockdown FILLS IT UP, you can not be knocked down and stunned again until it clears.

[Karenai]

500k single target damage, out of stealth, with stunlock on most victims, in every warzone.

No Sir, this does not look overpowerd at all. Not a tiny bit.

 

Maybe I am just on the wrong server.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Karenai

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

How come in all every example, the Ops/Scrapper seems ALWAYS has vanish and the other cooldowns ready for use, while the opponent seems to have no CC break and no resolve bar?

 

Do you expect to beat a guy who opens on you and blows all his cooldowns, while you yourself refuse to use a single cooldown and at the same time having somehow turned of your resolve?

 

WE CAN'T CHAIN CC USING OUR KNOCKDOWN, STOP MAKING THINGS UP. PROOF:

 

That being said, warzone buffs and adrenals shouldn't stack.

Overpowered surge buffs, and no level brackets are the only reason we get these threads.

 

Cool the only cooldown i can bust is the cc break which i may need to use to get away, i have not been bursted to death in one cc yet so i do not break the first cc, if i get ambushed by an Op i bug out, as a tank they have the dps advantage and picked the fight the odds are stacked against me completely. Therefore i sit and wait out the first cc, then use my cc's and start making distance while also using my slow, my aoe ability neutralizer, and my damage reduction skills to keep me alive while i try to escape. If you don't remember Guardians and jugs don't get a speed boost or an escape skill till late 40's and that only works if you have a friendly to jump to which if your out and about you may not.

 

I made up nothing in my post, all i stated is that at same level there shouldnt be any class that is able to burst damage half of a tank spec tank gears same level tank.

 

I mean its a no brainer if im starting the fight with <50% health imma die unless i has heals or i get away.

 

Even if my DPS is better than his he has 8.5 k hp ish i have 10.5. First ten seconds he has 8.5k and i have 5.25k. Then i start fighting my most damaging abilities may allow me to stack 2 cc's and drop hims to about 5.5k hp, Maybe (once again tank spec.) He then has the choice to try and disengage or engage me, difference is he can still use his second vanish and back stab to try and drop me the rest of the way without me fighting back or get me damn close, while my cc's are almost all on a minute timer, meaning im not getting another free hitting session on him.

 

Result he wins bout 3k to 0 if im lucky 4k to 0 if im not.

[GalaxyDude]

I just received a 7388 crit on my LvL 50 Sorcerer, healing specced and completely epic (PvP!) equipped, equaling 9% damage reduction solely from the PvP items plus another 25% damage reduction from my armor (and yes, I do know that these effects / factors are multiplicative and not additive!). Guess by whom?

 

 

Absolutely and bloody ridiculous!

Edited January 4, 2012 by GalaxyDude

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

So, you think we need nerfs, but even though they get you down to ~50% hp, you manage to force them to run away or die?

 

And for gods sake, a full resolve bar takes, what, 12 seconds or something to clear?

Knockdown FILLS IT UP, you can not be knocked down and stunned again until it clears.

 

Kill them or force them off? negative i run 90% of the time my cc's usually allow me to escape.

 

did you not read anything i said, i was in full retreat till he screwed up and i gained the upper hand.

 

And last i checked (today right before the patch), my resolve bar started decreasing back to 0 right after i came out of cc which meant he could still get a limited cc off on me.

[Maxxacre]

How come in all every example, the Ops/Scrapper seems ALWAYS has vanish and the other cooldowns ready for use, while the opponent seems to have no CC break and no resolve bar?

 

Do you expect to beat a guy who opens on you and blows all his cooldowns, while you yourself refuse to use a single cooldown and at the same time having somehow turned of your resolve?

 

WE CAN'T CHAIN CC USING OUR KNOCKDOWN, STOP MAKING THINGS UP. PROOF:

 

That being said, warzone buffs and adrenals shouldn't stack.

Overpowered surge buffs, and no level brackets are the only reason we get these threads.

 

That's laughable. Initiate on an equivalent level BH and win with 85% of your health remaining, killing him in a matter of seconds even when he has his shield up....

 

Then go into a "team fight" and die nearly instantly to supposedly show how the Scoundrel is not that good. I didn't know opening up on a guy when he has 4 additional team mates sitting there on the point waiting for something to happen... and you have no allies in the area... was called a "team fight."

 

Pretty funny.

[Austentacious]

On my low level Sorc (Yes, Sorc, *gasp* all my points are now invalid!) I have been killed within 1 stun quite a few times, even through a shield. However, I know this to be from an epic geared level 50. Only this guy has been able to do it. I'm unsure if he uses Biochem stims, but HE is a force to be feared. Ops and Scoundrels in general? Well, it's been a mixed bag. Sometimes they catch me with my trousers down, and sometimes I can DoT / Kite and Death Field them out of any stealth they do manage to find.

 

I think both sides of the arguments have, so far, been quite hostile towards each other. I personally would like to wait a month or two, and see how the classes balance when you get more PVP geared players facing one another.

 

All I know is that DoT-Trolling the aforementioned 50 Scoundrel is the highlight of my PVP experience.

[Maxxacre]

I just received a 7388 crit on my LvL 50 Sorcerer, healing specced and completely epic (PvP!) equipped, equaling 9% damage reduction solely from the PvP items plus another 25% damage reduction from my armor (and yes, I do know that these effects / factors are multiplicative and not additive!). Guess by whom?

 

 

Absolutely and bloody ridiculous!

 

The funny thing is, as valid of a point as you have... people will undoubtedly bash you just for playing a Sorc. Something like "oh that's funny... the most OP class in the game is calling someone else OP. pfft."

 

That's what these arguments have degraded into. It's out of hand, but a few Operatives are just here to argue tooth and nail that they are perfectly fine when it's pretty obvious they need an adjustment.

[Kyrandis]

How come in all every example, the Ops/Scrapper seems ALWAYS has vanish and the other cooldowns ready for use, while the opponent seems to have no CC break and no resolve bar?

 

Do you expect to beat a guy who opens on you and blows all his cooldowns, while you yourself refuse to use a single cooldown and at the same time having somehow turned of your resolve?

 

WE CAN'T CHAIN CC USING OUR KNOCKDOWN, STOP MAKING THINGS UP. PROOF:

 

That being said, warzone buffs and adrenals shouldn't stack.

Overpowered surge buffs, and no level brackets are the only reason we get these threads.

 

You should see some of the comments on that video...LOL

[GalaxyDude]

The funny thing is, as valid of a point as you have... people will undoubtedly bash you just for playing a Sorc. Something like "oh that's funny... the most OP class in the game is calling someone else OP. pfft."

 

That's what these arguments have degraded into. It's out of hand, but a few Operatives are just here to argue tooth and nail that they are perfectly fine when it's pretty obvious they need an adjustment.

 

I know, I expect nothing else... however, I forget to include the 4% damage reduction from talent points in my equation / calculation... oh and my improved shield!

 

Well equipped and fully stimmed / buffed rogues are OP beyond imagination.

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

op cant see its op. because that would require introspection, a skill only jedi knights have

[Kyrandis]

The funny thing is, as valid of a point as you have... people will undoubtedly bash you just for playing a Sorc. Something like "oh that's funny... the most OP class in the game is calling someone else OP. pfft."

 

That's what these arguments have degraded into. It's out of hand, but a few Operatives are just here to argue tooth and nail that they are perfectly fine when it's pretty obvious they need an adjustment.

 

So do sorcs, Troopers, Guardians...and every other class in the game. I do not go into the Sorc Nerf thread and go AMG I GOT HIT BY 2 DOTS LIGHTINGNINZ FROM 100% to 0% NERF NAO.

 

And the scary thing is, your bubbles prevent the most kills for me. If even 1 Sage is paying attention I can survive my Mirror's burst from an equally geared Op, turn around and freaking kill him.

 

Edit: Nerf Bubbles, and the CC on breaking them.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Kyrandis

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

Check out this gem

 

 

[Eclipso]

The fact remains there are several things for most of the classes / variations that need some adjuments and that does not necessairly mean a nerf.

[Kyrandis]

Check out this gem

 

 

Yup thats Biochem and Warzone buff stacking for you.

 

And I bet you good money he stacks a lot of Surge.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Kyrandis

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

Check out this gem

 

 

i can link another 4 videos identical to this on youtube

[Mursie]

I know, I expect nothing else... however, I forget to include the 4% damage reduction from talent points in my equation / calculation... oh and my improved shield!

 

Well equipped and fully stimmed / buffed rogues are OP beyond imagination.

 

please dont say "rogues". As a shadow I know my class can kill.. but the damage has to be prepped with clairvoyant strikes and gives the opponent some inclination that a burst is coming allowing for defensive measures to be taken.

 

this is not a "rogues" issue. this is an ops/scoundrel issue. broken.

 

 

look no further than the disparity on the opening alpha strike of the two rogue classes:

 

shadow/assassin (spinning kick/spike): coming out of stealth knocks target down 2 seconds and does 500 dmg. when you see a shadow/assassin use this..be sure to emote laugh them for they are garbage.

 

op/scoundrel (hidden strike): coming out of stealth knocks target down 3 seconds and does 4-7k damage (being modest here).

 

out of stealth - assassin/shadow hits for around 2.5 to 3.5k. Wears light armor while in dps spec... has no heals except biochem.

 

out of stealth - op/scoundrel hits for around 2.5 to 3.5k. Wears medium armor. Can heal in addition to biochem.

 

in addition to a knockdown and an incapacitate move (debilitate)... the operative has a snare and an aoe stun. top this all off with the knowledge that if you run from an operative... they can drop into cover... and snipe you for 2.5k at 30 meters.

 

It would appear that when the devs decided they didn't want an over-powered alpha strike class in the game... they built the rogue shadow/assassin with those goals in mind.

 

They then forget this recipe... and created the op/scoundrel.

[ohnam]

I know, I expect nothing else... however, I forget to include the 4% damage reduction from talent points in my equation / calculation... oh and my improved shield!

 

Well equipped and fully stimmed / buffed rogues are OP beyond imagination.

 

Lol Sorcs, you guys had it so easy leveling through pvp and especially Huttball that you are crying now that someone can truly finally counter you.

 

If you pvp a lot you know that Sorcs/Sage, BH/Trooper, and Ops/Scoundrel are topping the dps charts with awesome dps.

 

Now to beat Sorcs/Sage you have to do all your skills to beat them, you have to interrupt them pop defense cd's and "try" to chase them. I would say only skilled players can beat a normally skilled sorc/sage player solo unless they have help.

 

BH/Trooper lots of armor lots of dps and they have aoe and are range. Come on man! The range alone is so valuable in pvp. If you guys stoppped running solo all the time you would own us.

 

Ops/Scoundrel we have only really our opener and stealth. Until we get geared we can burn through bubbles or armor, you laughed at us and said thanks for playing.

 

Now that we can rofl stomp you from stealth means you are playing wrong. You need your cool downs up ad assume we are right behind you.

 

Basically if you run together and work as a team and not solo you won't get rofl stomped.

Edited January 4, 2012 by ohnam

[GalaxyDude]

^ Quite an interesting interpretation of the Scoundrel's / Operative's current status.

 

Note to myself: history DOES repeat itself in certain contexts, the Rog... erm pardon Scoundrel / Operative is inferior to every other single class, UNLESS an extremely skilled player controls it! Only under this condition can it excel and live up to its full potential!

 

Wait, I do have a deja vu...

 

It's the rogue's / rogues' primary defensive argumentation all over again.

Edited January 4, 2012 by GalaxyDude

[BDutch]

Ops/Scoundrel we have only really our opener and stealth. Until we get geared we can burn through bubbles or armor, you laughed at us and said thanks for playing.

 

Laceration/Suck Punch between AP boosted backstabs is not bad DPS....

[Kyrandis]

in addition to a knockdown and an incapacitate move (debilitate)... the operative has a snare and an aoe stun. top this all off with the knowledge that if you run from an operative... they can drop into cover... and snipe you for 2.5k at 30 meters.

 

You made me laugh...so hard right there. Second of all your damage is strictly assuming the Scoudrel crits and you don't. My Backblast has a 9 second cooldown, that can crit for 3k+ plus. Outside of the its Pistol Whip and Flying Fists, niether of which hit over 2k, but will crit a a little over that. With a 28% chance to do so(Backblast aside) in Champion gear it isn't exactly reliable to do so.

[Mursie]

your dmg and my dmg were being compared at crit level. my 2.5 to 3.5 k attacks out of stealth are at crit levels.

 

you can keep laughing friend.. and pretending your class isn't broken. but we all know it is. And as for the drop in cover.. you probably have never used it.. because you probably are a pathetic player that does not take full advantage of his class.

 

Obviously this is used situationally.. but it is very effective and hits pretty hard. suffice to say.. i most likely taught you something new today... and made you an even more lethal operative.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Mursie