The Expertise stat has to go...

[Vegathegreat]

The problem is bad players will always be bad, and good players just become gods as they get gear.

 

Solution : If you SUCK, then practice until you dont SUCK

 

 

 

Personally ive never done worse than 25-2, 200k regardless of my level. Solo queue or pre-made it doesnt matter....position yourself correctly and learn your class and all the other classes inside and out. All i know is that I didnt complain one time while leveling up about 50's in gear. Now that i am a 50 in gear it just means instead of doing 25-2 for 200k im doing 65-0 with 500k.

 

It is not the gear people, it is not the level people, you need not look further than yourself in most cases. Yes gear helps and Yes pre-mades and pocket healers help. But none the less at all points if you are a master of your class and have full knowledge of other classes then you will be just fine. And until you realize that within this spectrum is where you must be you will forever blame your lack of ability on gear and level.

[grimreaperguild]

Honestly if they do take it away. I will quit the game.

[Icarusandi]

The problem is bad players will always be bad, and good players just become gods as they get gear.

 

Solution : If you SUCK, then practice until you dont SUCK

 

 

 

Personally ive never done worse than 25-2, 200k regardless of my level. Solo queue or pre-made it doesnt matter....position yourself correctly and learn your class and all the other classes inside and out. All i know is that I didnt complain one time while leveling up about 50's in gear. Now that i am a 50 in gear it just means instead of doing 25-2 for 200k im doing 65-0 with 500k.

 

It is not the gear people, it is not the level people, you need not look further than yourself in most cases. Yes gear helps and Yes pre-mades and pocket healers help. But none the less at all points if you are a master of your class and have full knowledge of other classes then you will be just fine. And until you realize that within this spectrum is where you must be you will forever blame your lack of ability on gear and level.

 

Key words here: Master of your class, FULL knowledge of other classes.

 

Until you have both of those under your belt. You will always complain that other classes are OP, or gear, or whatever it is you people complain about to make yourself feel better, when all it really comes down to is you suck. You. Suck.

[Hoofster]

This goes back to the early days of wow. After awhile PVE becomes easy, you carry anyone through it and get them gear. Grats you now have really good stats that will crush people in PVP with almost no grind time for it.

 

A pvp stat makes it so that now those pvp players have an advantage that over those people who face rolled for stats. Now it seems crushing, and it will, but later on, it's fair to balance gear obtain from PVP and PVE.

[BDutch]

It's kind of like how a really good driver in a Civic will beat a bad driver in a Corvette. Work on your skillz bro.

[hurleybird]

I agree that the "expertise" rating is a silly mechanic taken from WoW. There are quit a few of those in this game for some reason...

 

IMHO, having end game gear that is so much better than other lvl 50 gear is silly as well. There should be end game gear that is difficult to obtain, but incremental to moderate improvements is the way to go. That way PvP is more about skill and less about being geared out, is a lot more accessible, and you don't need to worry about silly designs like stats that only work in PvE or PvP and segregate the population.

Edited January 9, 2012 by hurleybird

[Venilator]

This makes no sense.. raiders get their gear from raiding (if all they want to do is raid), if they want to pvp as well then they are in the same boat as the rest of us. I am not sure how the pvp gear is for raiding but there is an outside chance that if raiders wanted to be top tier in both raiding and pvp then they will have to grind out 2 sets of gear.

 

I kind of agree with the OP, there is no need for a pvp only stat. They only thing that is needed is for top end pvp gear to = raid gear. The reason wow added resilience is because people decked out in top end raid gear were blowing people up in pvp, if wow had just made the top end pvp gear = top end raid gear then both side would have been happy (you get your gear your way and I will get mine my way ).

 

I agree with this post but there is something people are forgetting.

 

Players will gravitate towards what gives gear the fastest and easiest. Generally that is PvE as PvP rewards always take more extremes of grinding then its PvE counterpart. Also what tends to discourage players is the issue of Veterans vs New players. Veteran players will generally ALWAYS have a gear advantage because they have been playing it longer and they have ground there way up so they can wear the latest and greatest end tier while the new players are going through their first tier of PvP armor.

 

Really the Issue with PvP is how PVP gear is tiered like PvE gear. Only MMOs persist in this idea that PvP players should be allowed a tiered PvP experience. Gear is not acquired through skill but time. Jumping into a pug and winning 30% of your warzones is all about the time you can commit to the game.

 

This experience is trash to be honest. PvP thrives on how everyone can get involved and fight one another. People get discouraged when they start in Mediocre gear and they have to fight people in heavy tiered PvP gear. Already you are getting Warzone games where one side gets most of the heavy PvP geared players and win through sheer gear advantage.

 

I am sorry but PvE gear is always easier to get hence why even PvP servers eventually fall to the call of PvE because you can always dominate a PvE instance and guarentee you get something. PvP you lose... at Lvl 50 warzone commendations are almost worthless.. your progression is... terrible since it is easier to find groups to drill through PvE content then PvP content.

[Benets]

I think the expertise numbers should change. The bonus should be the same for damage heal and damage reduction.

 

If you think, it becomes overpower to healers. Doing the math

 

10% expertise doing 1000 of damage you'll boost to 1100

but the other guy's having 10% expertise they'll reduce 10%, but not from 1000, 10% of 1100 that makes 110 bonus. In the end he did only 990.

But if the guy heals for 1000 he'll heal 1100.

 

The diference will be 110 in favor of heal.

[yukirshiro]

Purple+ PVE gear should max out at orange-quality stats in PVP. That is all you need to make raiders not able to dominate PVP.

 

It still leaves the problem of what to do about world pvp. But it's clear BW doesn't give a crap about world PVP by their treatment of the 30% healing debuff.

[kuan]

i bet the most ppl complaining about expertise are pvers that just join bgs once every time and the want to kick some *** with their pve stuff! And here comes expertise now , they clearly say ''dude u are not going to kick some *** with ur pve gear against a guy that played all his gametime in warzones and pvp'' and vise versa a pvper cant go far with his gear in pve!!!So pls dont whine about this stat its here to make clear some borderlines .WE CANT HAVE EVERYTHING WE WANT even if we think thats no fair!

[yukirshiro]

No. The point is that if the problem identified is PVE raiders in PVP, the solution is to nerf PVE raid gear in PVP, not to pile on a double-dipping PVP stat that widens the gear gap even more between ungeared PVPers and geared PVPers. Better stats should be enough. You shouldn't need a second double-dipping stat advantage over non-geared PVPers.

[kuan]

No. The point is that if the problem identified is PVE raiders in PVP, the solution is to nerf PVE raid gear in PVP, not to pile on a double-dipping PVP stat that widens the gear gap even more between ungeared PVPers and geared PVPers. Better stats should be enough. You shouldn't need a second double-dipping stat advantage over non-geared PVPers.

 

well if u dont want this extra stat in pvp then they have to make it MUCH harder to get any pvp gear otherwise its not rewarding at all .There is a reason why geared ppl should be stronger then ungeared !More time = more efficient gear= stronger pvp !and trust me if they make it harder to get gear in pvp more ppl will whine !!anyway i usually never join pvp forums cuz in none of the games ppl were happy avout the pvp.I rlly think pvp will never ever make ppl happy cuz there will allways be a reason to whine about czu there will allways be a guy that will kick ya ***

[Benets]

I think the damage reduction expertise bonus should be lower than others stats (damge and heal)

Like 10% bonus damage

10% bonus heal

7% damage reduction

 

or the damage reduction should be computed by the normal damage not boosted with the expertise

 

1000 damage with 10% expertise bonus do 1100. If the damage reduction's based not in the 1100 of the damage with expertise boost but the pure damage of 1000. It'll be al equal.

 

for each 1k damage, 100 damage boost, 100 heal boost and 100 reduction boost.

[Mikisoq]

Bump because u make pplhappy

[kuan]

I think the damage reduction expertise bonus should be lower than others stats (damge and heal)

Like 10% bonus damage

10% bonus heal

7% damage reduction

 

or the damage reduction should be computed by the normal damage not boosted with the expertise

 

1000 damage with 10% expertise bonus do 1100. If the damage reduction's based not in the 1100 of the damage with expertise boost but the pure damage of 1000. It'll be al equal.

 

for each 1k damage, 100 damage boost, 100 heal boost and 100 reduction boost.

 

 

hmm if they nerf the dmg reduction boost u will see unbalanced pvp like never before!!!

I have a vanguard valor 59 (soon 60 ) with 540 Epertise 20k life and ******** of defences!!! how many second u think 2 imperial agents need to kill me (same gear ofc if we discuss here lets do it the right way)???? 4 seconds!!!!

 

Yeah right iam supposed to be tank!

Edited January 10, 2012 by kuan

[RealAeiouy]

OK I was wrong, there are PvE people complaining about PvP gear.

 

I suggest you read this thread regarding PvE progression:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1349178#post1349178

 

Battlemaster = Rating 140

Rakata (tier 4) = Rating 140

 

Expertise taking up some of the allowance does not make it obsolete for PvE. PvP gear already lets you skip PvE content, regardless of Expertise.

 

I've never played a game where gear was so easy to get no matter how you wanted to do it, yet people are really worried about protecting their favorite part of the game from someone else? Why? There aren't months of progress from PvP or PvE to protect here. 2 weeks in and people are getting some of the best gear you can get, why do you care where it came from when its this easy? This is the only thing that expertise is protecting, and this is not worth it.

 

 

 

Pvp players just want access to the best pvp gear via pvp. That is. It unreasonable

 

If pvp and pve had equal time sinks for equal gear most pvp players would pvp. A substantial number of pve players would also pvp.

[RealAeiouy]

You're being ridiculous. You call it a grind. I call it having fun, playing part of the game I like, and getting some rewards, upgrading my character in process.

 

Yeah that is weird. I like playing pvp so it is not a grind. It is fun to me. Why people do it if it is just a grind is beyond me.

[RealAeiouy]

I agree that the "expertise" rating is a silly mechanic taken from WoW. There are quit a few of those in this game for some reason...

 

IMHO, having end game gear that is so much better than other lvl 50 gear is silly as well. There should be end game gear that is difficult to obtain, but incremental to moderate improvements is the way to go. That way PvP is more about skill and less about being geared out, is a lot more accessible, and you don't need to worry about silly designs like stats that only work in PvE or PvP and segregate the population.

 

 

 

The gear ceiling in pvp is fairly low so that is not a problem. It is not going to take six months for people to gear out. It disturbs me in a character managment game people want no character management. It does seem that a lot of people think removing gear imbalances will solve their pvp problems. It will not.

 

Many of us play pvp leveling and gearing up and don't struggle like some people here. Gearing up is not going to balance things out. The best time to get better at pvp is when you are outmatched. You are forced to play smarter to survive and thrive or you can just erroneously wait for gear thinking it will fix everything.

[Bearaids]

I dont know if this has been said or not but imagine a world were PVP was filled with people being geared out in PVE gear walking around nailing people for 12k Aimed Shots and a follow up 8 K Trickshot. PVP would be a thing for about an hour without expertize.

 

Get a grip dude.

[Trucane]

Would one think that playing a lot of PvP would by itself give you a huge advantage to someone doing a lot of PvP then again this is a typical theme park so no wonder that there is no real skill and it's 90% gear

[Cyphen]

In WoW, the higher tier PvP players have far more resilence than the honor/valor grinders with bad ratings. Those that compete for the .5% of the rankings titles have signifcantly more resil than the rest of the field based on being able to go get the top end gear based on their rating.

 

Have you played WoW recently? 2.2K+ Gear is only different visually. You can get all PvP gear through honor / conquest points.

 

Would one think that playing a lot of PvP would by itself give you a huge advantage to someone doing a lot of PvP then again this is a typical theme park so no wonder that there is no real skill and it's 90% gear

 

Yeah, if you get BIS gear you will become the best player in the world 1 shotting other people with the same gear.

 

Good one, brilliant logic sir!

Edited January 10, 2012 by Cyphen

[_Borg_]

If the PvP buff just balanced all stats including expertise warzones would be about skill instead of gear and nobody could complain about gear.

 

I think the only real reason this game and others don't do that is because the people in the gear really like to feel special by being able to roflstomp anyone without gear.

[Jargonaut]

Let me spell this out for you...

 

I am a PvPer. I have no interest in Raiding. I DON'T want a PvP stat, because A) it deters new players from trying/participating/functioning in PvP because the "more experience" players have a stat handicap, B) it lowers the skill cap in encounters, and C) is annoying as **** when you roll an alt.

 

I have no issue with PvP gear, but a PvP stat just breaks PvP for new players, not raiders. What should happen is this:

 

PvP Chest

+100 Endurance

+100 Aim

+75 Crit

+25 Surge

 

PvE Chest

+100 Endurance

+100 Aim

+75 Crit

+25 Surge

+50 PvE Expertise

 

Now you have a system where0

A) PvP Gear is just as good as the best Raid gear in PvP -- there is a diminished gear gap and skill can prevail.

 

B) A PvPer can use their PvP gear to raid, but at -10% efficiency compared to a similar tiered gear Raider.

 

Both of these promote participation in both forms of Endgame. And most importantly,

 

C) It makes PvP more accesible and fun to newer players, instead of a test of patience from being steamrolled by people solely because they have played longer, not better.

 

Why is it supposed to be ok to disadvantage pvpers in pve but not pveers in pvp? Scrap the seperate sets, have one set which can be earned doing which ever you enjoy the most and also allow pvpers to dip into pve when they like without disadvantage and vice versa. Why have different sets at all?

[lELADRIN]

Alot of players is working really hard to get that gear doing 15+++ warzones everyday for weeks, so no they will not remove it to make only hardcore raiders have the best gear.

 

 

Well I hate to say it but your probably wrong there. LotRO had a stat called Raidence for 3 years effectively making it so you had to have the gear to raid. They took it out after 3 years because it broke game mechanics sort of like Expertise gear does. In the end it will be who complains the loudest who will win that fight.

[AdamLKvist]

Why is it supposed to be ok to disadvantage pvpers in pve but not pveers in pvp? Scrap the seperate sets, have one set which can be earned doing which ever you enjoy the most and also allow pvpers to dip into pve when they like without disadvantage and vice versa. Why have different sets at all?

 

Reading through all these pages of ******** this is what I've been thinking all along. Just wait, though, I'm sure they'll have a perfectly fine made up explination.