The Expertise stat has to go...

[Ritalynn]

Having to PvE to be competative in PvP = terrible.

 

Only a PvE'er would suggest that.

[CapuchinSeven]

correct

without expertise pvp only players would be f' up

every raidplayer could roll over them like a truck

 

pvp players do pvp and get pvp gear

pve players do pve and get pve gear

 

simple logic, simple design

 

Having to PvE to be competative in PvP = terrible.

 

Only a PvE'er would suggest that.

 

Guys.. *rubs brow* we've covered this over and over and over again in this thread and why you're wrong.

[Desist]

Agree with the OP

 

Expertise needs to go. So painful now and it will be more painful when they make the 50s bracket. This is pretty much destroying PvP. You can't be a casual player on a PvP server. You're just asking to be frustrated. You aren't always going to get beat because they are better players. It's the expertise.

 

I can't believe they let this into the game. They seriously didn't test this and notice that little to no expertise vs a lot of expertise equals no fun.

[LaManoNera]

I have a feeling this will be what I stop playing TOR because of. When gear becomes more important than skill and cooperating with teammates then things cease to be fun for me.

 

Why does PvP gear have to have an arbitrary PvP stat like expertise on it to remain competitive with raid gear?

[Shredbull]

I have a feeling this will be what I stop playing TOR because of. When gear becomes more important than skill and cooperating with teammates then things cease to be fun for me.

 

Why does PvP gear have to have an arbitrary PvP stat like expertise on it to remain competitive with raid gear?

 

To everyone in this thread : Yes. PvP gear has PvP stats. Get over it. WoW has it, resilience. Every game , every mmorpg has special stats on PvP gear. Now, expertise boosts damage aswell, thats why everyone uses the potions , which makes it really OP. True. And there is no pve gear with extra stats to counter this gear. True. And people , some people, already have full end game pvp gear. True. Get over it, get to 50, and get some gear yourself. The only reason to be whining about pvp gear is because you're not 50 or you don't have the gear yourself. So please. Go play the game.

 

I am just quoting this guy, not personally talking to him, but making him an example. Stop threatening to quit. Bioware doesn't give a ****, you're just 1 out of a million and you make absolutely no difference by saying you'll quit.

 

Face it people, threatening to quit won't make any changes to any game whatsoever.

[Vindor]

Best compromise was back in the days on WoW vanilla when the best gear was a mix up of PvP and PvE gear.

 

PvP main parts (or some pieces) for hp and PvE for weapons, trinket etc ( unless you were rank14)

 

You had to do both to be 100% opti

 

was the best PvP time of my game life

[Kitsummerisle]

Doesn't WoW have 1mill dollar PvP tournaments every year? Hmmm...

[Thaderin]

Same old argument used in every gear based MMO. People always complain about PvP only stats and gear. Your argument is old and tired.

 

The reason why it is a good idea to have PvP armor is for one of the reasons you stated. What about those of us who may not like raiding? Why should we be at a disadvantage because of that? Raiders can go grind WZ's too, you know.

 

Yeah, or Bioware could have just made the gear equal anyway and have no need for an ego-boosting stat...

[Sumpfheini]

another PvEer who wants to win w/ raid gear

 

why not? I only have the time to focus on one aspect of the game but want to enjoy both, so if I only play 1/5 of my time PvP why shouldn't I have a fair chance?

I also don't bother if people in PVP gear are successful in PvE.

 

With 10% expertise = 20% advantage aswell as more useless stats like accuracy on PvE items there is NO chance you will win against an equally skilled PVP equipped enemy.

[Nisa]

Best compromise was back in the days on WoW vanilla when the best gear was a mix up of PvP and PvE gear.

 

this!

[mercsn]

So, I've played wow for 5 years or so first as pve, then a mix and now exclusively pvp (and cheap ganking of lesser geared players mostly). This game had so many BAD reviews/comments on the PvP aspect that I decided I had to try it out.

 

With that disclaimer said, I've been reading forums waiting on my digital d/l and this topic really seems to boil down to this:

 

IF YOU DON'T LIKE PVP (and the associated butt-whipping while you L2P and gear up) START ON A PVE SERVER.

 

Even if you are fighting in whatever goes for battlegrounds, if you are a PvE'er you're doing it as a distraction on a non raid day or when you don't have a flashpoint group going. And if you're not raiding/PvE'ing, you could go outside and play 'RL' for a bit.

 

If you get whipped on a pvp server you had it comming, because you're on a PvP server. And chances are someone like me was just whipping whoever killed you and now he's mad. There is always a bigger fish.

 

Also, quit focusing on gear and have fun operating your character in the game. I never understand why MMO players hate the game they play, but log in anyway to GET THAT GEAR!

 

Furthermore on the topic, I would anticipate the 10% damage mitigation to actually GROW becuase 10% is a pretty minor reduction, but this will depend on what the devs see as far as pve progression and dps/healing scaling. Since the game is so new this looks like a 'tester' of this pvp stat.

[romaz]

why not? I only have the time to focus on one aspect of the game but want to enjoy both, so if I only play 1/5 of my time PvP why shouldn't I have a fair chance?

I also don't bother if people in PVP gear are successful in PvE.

 

With 10% expertise = 20% advantage aswell as more useless stats like accuracy on PvE items there is NO chance you will win against an equally skilled PVP equipped enemy.

 

What if we go with the good ol i can trade a pve token for a pvp piece instead of a pve piece... and pvpers can trade their pvp commedations for pve raid gear. personally i dont like this idea but it would work since your still putting time to your goal. If you dont have time/dont want to farm pvp gear.... well can i just have a lvl 50? i dont really have time or want to level anymore.

 

Like the point of pvp gear is so pvpers are able to beat someone who is fresh pvper. just like raiding you cant just expect to be in a raid team w/ sub 50 gear. pvp gear isnt impossible to get... just takes some time like anything else. I have a issue if they did a rating requirement for better gear like wow did... make it possible so anyone can obtain equal gear. And who knows maybe there will be a tournament server where you can pay to join and you can pick out all your gear and pvp (wow pvp tournament).

[Anatharion]

It is very very easy to make up numbers for PVP gear that doesn't have Expertise stat and still makes it viable against the Raid gear. In fact all you have to do is use the exact same numbers. Highest end Raid equals highest end pvp gear. Voila you have an easy fix.

 

Expertise gives an advantage to those that wear it but while doing so make PVP non fun for those of us who don't. I didn't level as fast as some of you and playing PVP Warzones feels like a punishment for not levelling to 50 in the first 4 days.

 

My guild KTD has a lot of guys who will hit 50 in the next week and it's going to be hella fun when we get the gear to compete in Warzones.

 

The servers were all totally full until this week. Why have thousands of people left? I can bet you that most of them have left exactly because of the Expertise stat.

 

See you in the Warzones

 

Anatax

[keegras]

Why should there be a specific stat on PVP gear? IMO the only reason developers add such a stat is to have an additional timesink for people that like to PVE and PVP. Top PVP gear should be equal to top PVE gear and vice versa.

 

With the current system PVEers are locked out of PVP and PVPers are locked out of PVE, unless you are up for that additional timesink.

 

Where you get your gear from should not matter. The choice of gear you are wearing should be determined by it normal stats: More power for more damage but squishier or maybe a bit more endurance but less power for more survivability? There's no need for a PVP/PVE stat as we have all the nessessary stats already in the game which we can balance out as we please.

 

The biggest hypocrits anyways are the pure PVPers defending the current system cause they don't want to face people in raid gear (even if both sets were on par statwise). They however have no problem with the fact that they outgear even the most hardcore raider cause of a stupid stat. They expect raiders to be at a disadvantage cause they don't spend 20 hours a week in PVP matches. The raiders spend that time in raids. And PVPers still retain the advantage of having loads of gameplay experience in the different kinds of warzones. Nope, that's not enough! They want a gear advantage too.

 

Don't add a PVE stat, it's just as wrong. Remove the PVP stat and open PVP/PVE for every player, wherever they got their gear from, without the need for an additional timesink.

[CommandoPower]

And also to prevent competitive pvpers from being forced to raid.

 

Seriously, no one seems to remember the old days when the raiders would dominate PvP based on gear advantages and everyone would whine about that.

 

The game is built around gear progression. Having two different paths for PvE and PvP is a good thing because it allows people to focus on what they like to do without feeling like they have to do everything if they don't want to. If you want a completely level playing field from the get go, there are many other different types of PvP games out there.

 

If the bolster stat works properly doesn't this completely destroy the need for that? In fact the main reason that there are issues now is that bolster does nothing for expertise and doesn't bring down top level gear enough.

 

Bad thing is people would gripe about being on an even playing field in PVP and no longer having their win button vs half the population. How sad is that?

[Orangerascal]

Best compromise was back in the days on WoW vanilla when the best gear was a mix up of PvP and PvE gear.

 

Are you kidding? I had a mage in AQ40 gear and I could AP + POM + Pyro + incinerate instant kill almost anyone in the game (barring fire resist gear). The pyro mage was ridiculously OP in vanilla wow. I think people are suffering from selective memory. You think the IO is bad ... mages and rogues were worse.

 

TBC could not come fast enough, expanding people's HP pools immensely. Did you guys wonder why 60-70 more than doubled hp's ?

Edited January 9, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Nisa]

Are you kidding? I had a mage in AQ40 gear and I could AP + POM + Pyro + incinerate instant kill almost anyone in the game (barring fire resist gear). The pyro mage was ridiculously OP in vanilla wow. I think people are suffering from selective memory. You think the IO is bad ... mages and rogues were worse.

 

TBC could not come fast enough, expanding people's HP pools immensely. Did you guys wonder why 60-70 more than doubled hp's ?

 

i think u missed the point buddy

[benchpress]

I think some of you are playing the wrong genre. Go play online FPS games if you want equal gear. This is MMO, where the best gear is hard to get and not everyone has it.

 

Suck it up, not all pvp matches are against a premade. You will have champion gear in no time just casually pvp'ing. Even if you had gear, i doubt you would be able to defeat many premades with retarded pugs.

Edited January 9, 2012 by benchpress

[Death_Exile]

First im sick of people making these things crying about stuff! That said the stats make since why should i spend all my time doing pvp and get the gear from it so i can run into some guy with pve gear and b the same he has gear made for pve that he does and i have my gear for pvp that i do? how is this so confusing to people?

[-sasori]

A level 50 PvP bracket simply will not save the PvP in this game.[/size]

 

I second that, but don't get your hopes up at all.

 

WoW failed,

Aion failed

Rift failed

and lastly SWTOR failed with a pvp stat.

 

Save your energy and face the core issue of mmo pvp with serenity. Twink and rerole for low level pvp which somehow is more or less balanced or just don't bother with pvp at all.

 

Sadly in modern MMOs PVP isn't about challenge and "fair" fights, it's about afk leeching epic pvp gear and roflstomping randoms with premades in superior gear.

 

Whoever was responsible to copycat pvp stats completely forgot, this kind of character advancement is only working for PVP centric players. It does not work for *casual pvp playing.

 

Unless we get a *casual pvp warfront pool or balance mechanics i doubt this "PVP" will fare any different than it's predecessor.

Edited January 9, 2012 by -sasori

[Orangerascal]

i think u missed the point buddy

 

First I was pointing an obvious fallacy in his post. No game should ever be like vanilla wow, right before tbc, even blizzard decided something drastic needed to happen.

 

Second, I do understand the point, the problem is most people don't understand the gearing process of the game. I like the gearing process, because it allows my guild to powergear new people 9 months from now and allow them to be competitive.

 

Here's a summary: Currently, PVE operations gear is currently the best gear for pvp atm. Rakata gear = Battlemaster gear because what it lacks in expertise it gains in endurance and main stats.

 

Take a look at these equivalent items:

http://www.torhead.com/item/9mlzpng/battlemaster-survivors-robe

http://www.torhead.com/item/9KmbAiu/rakata-survivors-robe

 

In short:

PVP items = PVE Items for pvp

PVE items > PVP items pve

 

Removing expertise, will only force bioware to increase the stats of the pvp items so that pve items don't excel. If not people will just farm pve items for pvp.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Orangerascal

[IvamAkorahil]

A level 50 PvP bracket simply will not save the PvP in this game.

 

There is no logical explanation for having a PvP stat in this MMO game, or in fact any MMO game. The only possible reason for Expertise to exist in this game is to screw over people who cant grind it first.

 

 

I'm not even mad.

 

what grind ? i never did any grinding for my pvp gear

[Wiggletphyre]

I second that, but don't get your hopes up at all.

 

WoW failed,

Aion failed

Rift failed

and lastly SWTOR failed with a pvp stat.

 

Save your energy and face the core issue of mmo pvp with serenity. Twink and rerole for low level pvp which somehow is more or less balanced or just don't bother with pvp at all.

 

Sadly in modern MMOs PVP isn't about challenge and "fair" fights, it's about afk leeching epic pvp gear and roflstomping randoms with premades in superior gear.

 

Whoever was responsible to copycat pvp stats completely forgot, this kind of character advancement is only working for PVP centric players. It does not work for *casual pvp playing.

 

Unless we get a *casual pvp warfront pool or balance mechanics i doubt this "PVP" will fare any different than it's predecessor.

 

Contradiction much?

 

Or i guess its tottaly fine that the guy that farmes PvE all week to get the Robes of omglolop so he can pwn some noobs in PvP because theres no diffrence in stats

 

inb4 PvE noobs crying that PvP gear is way easyer to get then PvE gear and has same stats...

[Daex]

Stat counting done for Juggernaut/Guardian tank, War Leader Champion vs Columni gear.

 

PvP:

 

+789 strength

+1180 endurance

+551 expertise

+402 defense rating

+192 shield rating

+87 absorbtion rating

+138 accuracy rating

+90 surge rating

+1008 force power

 

Set Bonuses:

 

(2) Increases duration of Force Choke or Force Stasis by 1 second.

(4) Increases your damage done to PLAYERS by 5% while you Guard another player.

 

PvE:

 

+990 strength

+1358 endurance

+421 defense rating

+240 shield rating

+87 absorbtion rating

+138 accuracy rating

+90 surge rating

+1008 force power

 

Set Bonuses:

(2) Increases the duration of Blade Turning by 1 second, and the duration of Invincible or Warding Call by 2 seconds.

(4) Increases the amount of damaged absorbed by Sonic Barrier or Blade Barrier by 20%.

 

Totals(comparison):

 

PvE:

 

+201 strength

+178 endurance

+19 defense rating

+48 shield rating

 

PvP:

 

+551 expertise(~10%)

 

Also 4 set PvP bonus is worthless in PvE while both PvE set bonuses are handy in PvP as well as in PvE.

 

Seems perfectly fine to me. Bai.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Daex

[iFoo]

Stat counting done for Juggernaut/Guardian tank, War Leader Champion vs Columni gear.

 

PvP:

 

+789 strength

+1180 endurance

+551 expertise

+402 defense rating

+192 shield rating

+87 absorbtion rating

+138 accuracy rating

+90 surge rating

+1008 force power

 

Set Bonuses:

 

(2) Increases duration of Force Choke or Force Stasis by 1 second.

(4) Increases your damage done to PLAYERS by 5% while you Guard another player.

 

PvE:

 

+990 strength

+1358 endurance

+421 defense rating

+240 shield rating

+87 absorbtion rating

+138 accuracy rating

+90 surge rating

+1008 force power

 

Set Bonuses:

(2) Increases the duration of Blade Turning by 1 second, and the duration of Invincible or Warding Call by 2 seconds.

(4) Increases the amount of damaged absorbed by Sonic Barrier or Blade Barrier by 20%.

 

Totals(comparison):

 

PvE:

 

+201 strength

+178 endurance

+19 defense rating

+48 shield rating

 

PvP:

 

+551 expertise(~10%)

 

Also 4 set PvP bonus is worthless in PvE while both PvE set bonuses are handy in PvP as well as in PvE.

 

Seems perfectly fine to me. Bai.

 

Clear, statistical logic 1, QQers - 0.

 

Logic wins!

 

If you don't pvp, don't get pvp gear. If you do pvp, hooray! you don't have to pve to remain competitive!

 

/thread.