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Best MMO PvP you ever played?


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RF-Online hands down. 3 Factions, not this 2 Faction Crap, every 8 Hours the Factions would fight over an Objective to get Resources for your Faction and the good old fight for leveling spots.....aaaah how i miss the PvP from this.


I remember that game, you didnt even need to be at the keyboard to play it.

My brother and I could just rest something heavy on the keyboard like a cup or mobile phone and it could harvest all day long to make us money or to help us win the warzones.

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No wonder the pvp in this game is trash...the community is all over the place on what actually constitutes good pvp. Now I understand why devs can't figure out how to make a good pvp based mmo - way too much difference of opinion here.


Not entirely true, sure there are varieties of games being mentioned but...


A lot of people seem to like the idea of more Realm vs Realm type PVP (large scale clashes over objectives that matter).


A lot of people like the idea of an odd number of factions (generally 3) in order to help prevent one faction becoming overall dominate due to population imbalance (hello fellow empire players).


Sadly the chances of some third faction being added in, even at this early stage are slim to none.


It's not to late for some really nice RvR combat BUT it's going to be hard to make it work well with the faction imbalance.

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Nothing comes even close to open world PVP in EVE. It's the only game where getting killed actually results in you losing something. Tried WoW, DAoC, Rift, UO (lol), and SWG. Nothing comes even close to EVE in terms of PVP.


You should have given Darkfall Online a try. If it were run by a semi-competent company and had even a moderate population, it would be the best PVP MMO to date, even better than EVE.

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I remember that game, you didnt even need to be at the keyboard to play it.

My brother and I could just rest something heavy on the keyboard like a cup or mobile phone and it could harvest all day long to make us money or to help us win the warzones.


Lol yeah, I hated leveling spells and abilities in that game. To get my heal to max level it had to be cast 65535 times, and it only counts if it actually healed damage. I had to pull a mob to a remote corner of the world and then jam something on my heal key so it healed all through the night while I slept, hoping no enemy player found me. It took about 120 hours of this to max out the heal...and that was the easy spell to level up.


The PVP however was pretty fun, if a bit simplistic.

Edited by rakhabit
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SWG, but it was hard to get anything added to that game on its shoestring budget. Still, I miss it a lot. WoW for me never came close to SWG.


Bethesda won it's lawsuit against Interplay, so we should be seeing a Fallout MMO in about 4 years.


SWG .... Good pvp...... ROLF ya right!


SWG never had good pvp, for non-jedi combat based it was based entirely around KD/dizzy followed by spamming the same mind damage attack over and over. Really the victor was decided by who had the most mind damage/wound proc weapons and poison at there dissposial.



The game had the potential for good pvp but was never refined nore was there enough sandbox tools in place to encurage it. faction point gear sucked, bases had no real value (the system for capturing them was also halfassed)


Really the only thing the game had going for it was the crafting/harvesting system and classless system (that also turned out to be terrible becuse it was never refined or balanced allowing vary easy builds to exploit the defense mechanics)

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2/3: Guild Wars (not really an MMO), Warhammer (the combat system was mostly good for most of the game's lifespan, despite the city / fort system being ****ed for equally as long)



DAOC commentary:


1. DAOC had an effective overarching system because there were 3 realms. Reasonably good internal balancing.


2. DAOC had good gameplay options because there were no "rails". The developers didn't add over-engineered microgoals here and tokens there to make you do specific things.


Look at how ****** Ilum is -- players want "TOKENS" and **** to drop in Ilum to make it "worthwhile". Players do Warzones only because they give commendation tokens. Everyone and their brother wants *********** tokens as a reason to PvP, instead of simply killing players because it's fun.


In DAOC, you simply got points for doing the one thing common to all PvP: killing *********** players. None of this clicking on chests in Tatooine ********. No retarded medal farming "hey let's stand in the acid pit more". No clicking gimmicky objectives on Alderaan.


You kill players, you get points. Period.


3. DAOC PvP had a greater purpose -- relics that mattered. No game since has implemented an overarching reason for your entire faction to cooperate to WIN THE GAME. Although it has to be said: relics had a significant impact on PvE. And this is probably why we will never see a similar system for WoW/Rift/SWTOR or any PvE-centric game.


4. Gear. DAOC gear, for a very long segment of its life, was easy as **** to get to a competitive level. During vanilla, you did your epic quest, gg. During SI, you talked to a crafter and paid a few hundred gold. During ToA (**** TOA) you ****ed your ******e with a sharp object. After they nerfed TOA, it was a short grind.




Additional note on #2: This is pretty significant IMO, because this may never change for MMOs in the future. Specifically, Mythic was lazy as **** and simply bad at making their "content". They were too haphazard to go and "MAKE RAILS" like Trion, BioWare, Blizzard.


Modern developers sink a lot of development and QA time into creating things like 47 different tokens, finely-tuned token acquisition rates and gear acceleration and titles and rewards and map markers and objective capture times and ... get the picture? Developers nowadays over-engineer the games.


They call it "features" and "content". What it does is force players to min/max their "TOKENS PER HOUR".


Back in DAOC's day, the devs were lazy *****es working out of their garage. Not really, but at that level. PvP in DAOC was barebones and simple: kill players, collect RP. Kill door, kill lord, take keep. Keep helps you kill players, collect RP. Did I mention killing players and collecting RP?


The system was absurdly simple. This means that players are the ones who decided how they wanted to play -- did they want to StealthZerg™? 8-man roam? Zerg that milegate? Camp Darkness Falls? Any of the above, because they all involved ... get this: KILLING PLAYERS, COLLECTING RP.


Nowadays, developers try to tune rewards for zerging, roaming, camping, ganking. If you played Warhammer, you saw this -- keep trading, because players try to optimize RP/hour. Because devs tried to "incentivize" keep warfare. What do we do in Ilum? Trade caps. What do we do in Huttball? Farm medals. We don't PvP anymore, because the developers give us "TOKENS" and micro-objectives, and zone quests.


None of which involve killing players.


Developers are trying too hard at all the wrong things.


Mythic didn't try hard when they made DAOC. They let the players try hard after they lucked out with a solid PvP system.




I agree. This post sums up PvP in MMOs ever since WoW was released.


The part about that post I love the most is how perfectly he describes the problems with this "micro-objective" system. In SWTOR, you can easily win all three Warzones without killing a single enemy or with very minimal fighting.


- Hutball: Coordinate pulls/Intercedes/Leaps and you can win 6-0 rather quickly without actually having to kill hardly anybody


- Alderaan: Stealth classes can simply ninja cap points. Yes, I realize they will most likely have to kill at least a couple players but in general, combat can be avoided.


- Voidstar: Stealth classes can once again ninja cap the doors.


I love how in DAOC, there were no "micro-objectives" and that the goal in PvP was simple and straight-forward: Kill enemy players, gain Realm Points.


Taking keeps involved: kill door, kill enemy players, kill lord, keep is yours.


EasymodeX is 100% spot on in his post. Nice job.

Edited by copasetic
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Ultima Online


The fact there were no "factions" to begin with, and you would be 'good or bad' based on if you PK'd or killed PK's.


When the shrines started to get involved, and the gems and all that jazz... I lost interest personally. Stopped playing. Made free shards and tried to re-live the experience, but with only 150 people, it got boring fast.


I did like running tournaments. I found it quite enjoyable.


I never played DAoC religiously. I think only for a month or so, and I was back to other games. But from what I hear, the sieges were epic sauce.

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DaOC retail.

DaOC Darkness Falls "Patch"

DaOC - Shrouded Isle expansion


Anything by Mythic after SI forget it. Frontier, Trials of Atlantis, etc - all of it failed after the SI part because they couldn't find a way to balance PvE with PvP and class abilities (see the connection to WoW by any chance?). The two really can't coexist regardless of how many companies try to, it just doesn't work.


Why DaOC worked which some of already said but I'll second is simply a reason to engage first and foremost. But more importantly risk and rewards. Reason is simple. Character statistics and abilities based on progression over time. Pace set by subscriber and progression could be done via group or solo.


Guilds and alliances could communicate - nothing so far comes close in most MMO's currently out. Guilds are more or less solo and band aids are built via grouping tools. In DaOC you had a guild, then you had an alliance - alliances are made up of more guilds which shared a common chat channel. Keeps controlled by guilds in the alliance all received alerts when keeps are attacked...


It goes on and on but if you played it it really is simple in all honesty. You pve behind a wall and can't be killed. You go beyond said wall to quest or kill mobs the exp and other rewards are greater, but the risk of getting killed / ganked is higher. Your guild, or alliance takes keeps or relics you get other rewards and after Darkness Falls content push you gained access to a new instance again with more rewards, faster exp, and what not. If you are inside said instance when your realm loses it - you have to make a decision. Stand and fight, log out and come back later, hide, or find one of the off shoot sides and make a stand. Some of the, if not most fun ever in any pvp game, happened here. Oh, and there was a super tough boss that pre ToA never died....no matter how many people tried to zerg it.


The main thing to take away when people mention DaOC is that there was risk, rewards, and a reason to engage in PvP. The 3 r's more or less. You could play at your own pace and not fall far behind. It was built up around PvP. Guilds formed alliances. They communicated. You could be large or small. No restrictions on claiming keeps other than supporting the required points to keep it, or defend it. Crafters added value. Healers added value. Tanks added value.


Warzones, Bg's tie you to a confined space. The don't change. They get old. Larger zones like Ilum or say wintergrasp are a bit different but they bring in their own issues one if which may break this silly game - win trading. That is a bad thing, it is cheating, and it must be stopped.


Bottom line - give PvP a reason to happen and people WILL play. It doesn't havet o drop loot like skittles falling from the sky. But it needs to have risk, rewards, and a reason.


Edit 1: Most important above all is that a game engine which dates back to 2001 could support 300+ people in the same zone casting all abilities fighting over a relic and not stutter...

Edited by Incendergel
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Pirates of the burning sea.


Complex combt engine, slow enough to be more than twichy button mashing, no grind, no reliance in carrot, awesome team play (moving together defensively is the key to winning group fights.. no magically saving a teammate from long distances with no los), consequences for losing (you loss your shiny stuffz when you sink).


A lot like EvE, but with good combat.


Only thing it was ever missing was people with the stones and ( patience to get past the learning curve) to play it.


Neverending adrenaline.. I'd still be playing it (it had me for 5 years) but I'm grown up now and find that with minimal playtime quantity > quality.

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It's a shame many of you missed the best and lack the perspective. I'm not being condescending, just honest. Pre-Trammel Ultima Online and Asherons Call on the Darktide server were the best. For realm vs realm I'd have to say DAoC, although mezz was over the top.


Best one i ever played was Asherons Call.


It had a dynamic engine that allowed players to dodge incomeing magic and missle attacks from players and mobs. and im not talking a system like Darkfall were you have to aim the game aimed your attacks for you kind of like a aimbot in a shooter but the projectiles wernt instant you could see them coming and move out of the way it actually took skill.


also it had NO CC, so a skilled player could fight and win against multiple enemys, just because you were fighting 2 guys didnt mean you lost because you stand there stuned or rooted for ever, they still had to actually hit you so it gave you a chance.


plus it was a skill based game with no classes, you could be a fire ball throwing sword guy with cooking trained if you wanted, you earned XP by killing stuff but you also earned what was called unasigned XP that you saved up and spent on what skill YOU want to level up.


the pvp server was savage, there was not a single place on the entire map that was safe from pvp. when you went out hunting there was pvp, when you were in town selling there was pvp. there was huge epic wars over dungeons that guilds tried to control to level up, there was huge epic wars over towns that guilds tried to hold to sell items and call home.


YOU WERE NEVER SAFE it was real pvp.


This ^^



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