BobTheTeepo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 In my opinion, they are wonderfully designed if I were going to hang it on a wall. It's the content within the world, in terms of gameplay, that simply isn't good. Don't get me wrong, SWTOR isn't a bad game, it's a good game. It just isn't great. Ya, I see what you're saying and I agree. This game has aesthetics down (with the exception of the lack of hi-res armor textures), no animation skipping and that sort of thing is nice. But it has to work on it's functionality before it's in shape to directly compete with WoW. Luckily, it being new (and as such more people will be picking it up and trying it at this time, more people will play it just because it is new etc.) and it being Star Wars will keep it afloat for a while; hopefully long enough for Bioware to improve upon it enough for it sustain someone long term. It will get better, as more Warzones/Operations/Features/Flashpoints/Worlds/Equipment is added, and as bugs are fixed (1 of all the things I've mentioned are going to be released in March Bioware says). It won't last long in it's current shape... but it's an MMO -- it won't be in it's current shape for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think most (illogical) people determine if a game fails by if they themselves are still playing it or not. "I got burnt out on this game in two days, this game will fail no it has failed and i don't know how to use periods just exclamation points! LOUD NOISES!!!" "My entire guild set a deadline of being 50 before the game comes out so we can run every single endgame raid on uberhardcore mode, and we, like, SO totally did that already. What now? This game failed." "I hate Star Wars, this game failed!" My reasoning? If the servers are still up, legitimately, then it's not a failure yet. Hell, I think Ultima Online still has servers up, and that thing's older than my Commodore 64! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonkiratainted Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Biggest failure is to call it an MMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamiosoup Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) wow has lost something around 2,000,000 subs last I heard. WoW has lost more players than any other MMO on the market can maintain, and still remains top dog. Your point? Edited January 27, 2012 by Kamiosoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardicon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 to me a game fails if it doesnt recoup the initial investment and has to shut down because of it. any thing else is a success. if it made a profit it is a success, period. if it didnt it failed. then you get into degress of success or degrees of failure. wow was hugely successful, other games not so much. only games i think that failed in the past was auto assault and tabula rasa and maybe a few others that i didnt pay any attention to but those were two of the bigger ones that i can remember. and tabula rasa might of actually turned a profit before ncsoft shut it down, i dont even know but i would assume it didnt since it got shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Following the logic of some of the posters on this thread the fact that I hate WoW and played it for roughly 3 hours before realizing what a steaming pile it is would make it a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheTeepo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 LIES! I dont give two pence about all of your facts, your fancy graphs with all of that ...eh evidence and stuff! I mean really guy, who do you think you are coming in here and trying to post just facts and stuff? Do you have any REAL facts? No. How about TRUE facts? No. Yeah, thats what I thought... Hope this helps. -Lad *Walks out in shame* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Ya, I see what you're saying and I agree. This game has aesthetics down (with the exception of the lack of hi-res armor textures), no animation skipping and that sort of thing is nice. But it has to work on it's functionality before it's in shape to directly compete with WoW. Luckily, it being new (and as such more people will be picking it up and trying it at this time, more people will play it just because it is new etc.) and it being Star Wars will keep it afloat for a while; hopefully long enough for Bioware to improve upon it enough for it sustain someone long term. It will get better, as more Warzones/Operations/Features/Flashpoints/Worlds/Equipment is added, and as bugs are fixed (1 of all the things I've mentioned are going to be released in March Bioware says). It won't last long in it's current shape... but it's an MMO -- it won't be in it's current shape for long. It wont get better cause its fundamentally bad, but that just my opinion. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheTeepo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It wont get better cause its fundamentally bad, but that just my opinion. Time will tell. You're right about that. Kind of pointless to speculate, time will reveal all. Let's just all hope it shapes into something wonderful (which can be helped by not making the forums a miserable experience for all non fanboys/haters ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonkiratainted Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Lets see, you pay $15 for dinner at McDonalds and that can lead to tons of health issues, yet, you continue to go back... Honestly, if $15 is breaking you to the point you need to list the price per month, then you need to not play a subscription base game. Next, the game is more than worth $15 if you only play it 3 times a month for 3 hours each time. You pay $50 for one meal at Outback which you will crap out in a few hours and are only left with the taste of the stake when you burp. You can not complain about the game costing $15 when you pay that much for something you can never enjoy or will never have the option to be enjoyed in the future. Just saying $15 is not that much $$$. Be my guest and pay for my sub then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daays Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 STO and LOTRO both have (STO did while it was staying P2P). You're making predictions that have many assumptions. 1. We have no info to suggest that this game will go to below 600k in 3 months. 2. We have no info to suggest that this game will continue to fall 3. We have good info that this game's population is stabilizing to an extent. http://www.mmo-junkies.net/index.php?app=statistics Use the yearly graph, and you'll find that server stress has been stabilizing quite a bit. We experienced a sharp dive at first, but if you look at it, we're experiencing a sort of stabilization that Rift, Aion, AoC, and Warhammer never experienced. Stress is actually INCREASING at this very moment, it could drop again but at this very moment more people are playing daily. The gaming community in actuality, tends to -- after they've quit -- check back in on the game (people feel bad about wasting initial invest, people beat the current content and get bored etc.). They ask friends who still play, they look around the forums and that sort of thing. So if TOR can get it's stuff together in about 6 months, a lot of the original subs that were lost will return. Not talking about the game now. New MMORPG's are always high at the start. It's 6 months down the line that no MMORPG since WoW has been able to break. All of them, yes all of them, have lost over 70% of their initial launch population. SWTOR is doing nothing different than its predecessors. It is following down the exact same path. History repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geglad Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 5) Post holiday sales for 2012 so far are 186,000+/- 6) The game has most likely dropped 300,000-500,000 subs from launch and that's normal 7) With the added 186,000 who bought after the holiday season was over and the game reviews were out, net losses were 120,000-320,000+/- While my number of dropped subs is a guess, it's just as viable as anyone else's since only EA/BW know for sure. This game is doing better than average and it is a better than average game. SW:TOR will be doing great in 2 years. 6 is speculative by phrasing alone, even if you can be more specific on your sources it really means nothing because "probability" is not reality. 7 has a huge variation in possible value, which makes it...eh really super duper accurate. If I recall the right definition for the word accurate...I think. Just kidding - those be TRUE facts all boyo! But all shyting aside, whats your source for 5? -Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidkjames Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I just get tired of all the 10 million subs people. In NA and EU, WoW has roughly 3-4 million subs which can be seen through Cataclysm expansion purchases since that is the only areas that support it. So if SWTOR can make up half of 3 million subs then it is as successful as WoW any day of the week. The Asian market is close to 75% of WoW's subscriber base and it makes about as much as the NA European markets. Do a little research and see that comparing apples to apples this game is already as successful as any other MMO in the respective markets it covers. Sorry to disappoint all the WoW fans but more than likely in NA/EU, SWTOR will become more popular than WoW in the next year. Edited January 27, 2012 by solidkjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrath Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 6 is speculative by phrasing alone, even if you can be more specific on your sources it really means nothing because "probability" is not reality. 7 has a huge variation in possible value, which makes it...eh really super duper accurate. If I recall the right definition for the word accurate...I think. Just kidding - those be TRUE facts all boyo! But all shyting aside, whats your source for 5? -Lad In my summary I mentioned the speculative nature of #6 which also makes #7 speculative. However, my speculation is based on history of first month changes in subs to all new MMOs, when that data is provided. As for my source for #5, VGChartz list of global sales for 2012, which by definition is post holiday sales since we're in week 4 of January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just get tired of all the 10 million subs people. In NA and EU, WoW has roughly 3 million subs which can be seen through Cataclysm expansion purchases since that is the only areas that support it. So if SWTOR can make up half of 3 million subs then it is as successful as WoW any day of the week. The Asian market is close to 75% of WoW's subscriber base and it makes about as much as the NA European markets. Do a little research and see that comparing apples to apples this game is already as successful as any other MMO in the respective markets it covers. Sorry to disappoint all the WoW fans but more than likely in NA/EU, SWTOR will become more popular than WoW in the next year. SWTOR wont be more popular than rift in a year and definitely not more popular than WOW lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonkiratainted Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Really? Are we? Bioware pours most of their budget into voice acting, creates linear worlds, leaves out 7 years of features that have come to be the norm in MMOs and they lazily throw together a few raids and flash points with bosses of NO lore significance what so ever, and you still think they're setting up for long term success? Let me ask you something, why does a game like Guild Wars 2, from a company with not even a quarter of the recognition of Bioware, manage to have features like a LFG system, day night cycles, swimming, a dynamic world, and yes FULL voice overs. But Bioware, a world reknown developer couldn't even manage to include AA and high res textures in the final release. What makes you think SWTOR will survive a 2012 market when not only BETTER games are coming out, but those better games... ARE FREE TO PLAY This +1 Cant wait for GW2!!! PvP for life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidasaind Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions In case nobody has pointed it out yet. Video game retailers are not in the business of breaking even. EB, Amazon, Best Buy, etc have to make profit. In other words, EA does not make $60 per game (at least not physical copies). Is MSRP 10% above wholesale? 40%? Who knows, but just keep that in mind. Also 50% retention for 1 year is actually not half bad in the current MMO market. I doubt that Bioware will be able to maintain that. There are so many big titles coming out this year. The first month was very rough on the player base. And there is the fact that plenty of people simply go back to WoW if a game does not live up players' (usually unreasonable) expectations. If the actual cost of the game was $300million (I am only talking about the game, not the cost of EA purchasing Bioware and/or Mythic), then chances are they will lose quite a bit of money on the product. I had heard actual estimates of production in the range of $80 million which is probable thanks to 2 million box sales. Unfortunately, that just gives big budget studios (EA and Activision) more reason to rush products out. If they can turn a profit on this game, then they will probably keep pushing deadlines rather than waiting for finished products (and by Activision, I don't mean Blizzard. I realize that they still seem to ahve the power to delay unfinished products). I just get tired of all the 10 million subs people. In NA and EU, WoW has roughly 3-4 million subs which can be seen through Cataclysm expansion purchases since that is the only areas that support it. So if SWTOR can make up half of 3 million subs then it is as successful as WoW any day of the week. The Asian market is close to 75% of WoW's subscriber base and it makes about as much as the NA European markets. Do a little research and see that comparing apples to apples this game is already as successful as any other MMO in the respective markets it covers. Sorry to disappoint all the WoW fans but more than likely in NA/EU, SWTOR will become more popular than WoW in the next year. And don't forget that it is F2P (or at least uses a different payment method) in many Asian countries which leads to inactive accounts being counted in that 10-12 million figure. WoW has an insane population despite its age. But I doubt it is anywhere near 10 million active accounts worldwide. Edited January 27, 2012 by Fidasaind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtSplacker Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This thread is a failure. This is a new game, I have played plenty games that were way worse at launch. I don't know why everyone is so intent on seeing this game fail. Go back to WOW and stop trolling these forums with this gibberish. This game is awesome, i'm enjpying every minute of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidkjames Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 SWTOR wont be more popular than rift in a year and definitely not more popular than WOW lol. Well what are you doing here? Trying to convince us that WoW is better? Or are all your friends here from WoW so you feel if you don't destroy this game you will be stuck in Azeroth all alone? Their forums are still up, go over there and tell all the people flaming the MOP forums that they are wrong and MOP is going to be the greatest expansion EVA! The amount of hate this game is drawing reassures me it's level of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Well what are you doing here? Trying to convince us that WoW is better? Or are all your friends here from WoW so you feel if you don't destroy this game you will be stuck in Azeroth all alone? Their forums are still up, go over there and tell all the people flaming the MOP forums that they are wrong and MOP is going to be the greatest expansion EVA! The amount of hate this game is drawing reassures me it's level of success. How am I destroying this game? People making stupid fanboish comments need to be brought back to reality. Saying this game will be more popular than WOW in a year is dumb, and I hate WOW for the most part. This game is not nearly good enough to compete with WOW at any serious level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The only actual failure in the MMO market was Matrix. Every other MMO is still pretty much alive and kicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiepMiep Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 who cares ops fail definition, its just not much fun past 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The hack wannabe programmers callled the devs in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiepMiep Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The only actual failure in the MMO market was Matrix. Every other MMO is still pretty much alive and kicking. Rofl. Tabula rasa, failhammer, rofllotro, this conan thing. They all failed their expectations. And they failed hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geglad Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 In my summary I mentioned the speculative nature of #6 which also makes #7 speculative. However, my speculation is based on history of first month changes in subs to all new MMOs, when that data is provided. As for my source for #5, VGChartz list of global sales for 2012, which by definition is post holiday sales since we're in week 4 of January. Thanks - am looking it up! If I can remember how to read! Point about your summary though - speculation is speculation. I gotta question though...been looking out my window... Will the sun rise tomorrow? I worry about it sometimes....stupid huh? -Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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