What Determines SWTOR's Failure?

[Gleneagle]

It's alright to blame a paying customer to have foresight into an unknown aspect of a game, rather than a company that spent millions in producing the game keep it interesting at level 50?

 

I want a beer to go with that pretzel logic

 

'Story driven content'. What story have you read recently that began at the end?

 

Have some mustard with that pretzel.

[Kozakkoo]

Is a SWTOR failure ?

 

Yes, it is. Few reasons why. First of all this bull... that they spent 300 mil ? are you kidding me? Do you believe that. I am pretty sure it was a marketing trick...

 

BW has no experience what so ever in MMO development. They are capable of developing Tetris. I am already level 50 and there is nothing to do. Flashpoints are big joke. 2 operations filled up with dozens of bugs ... Story line is a proper crap, designed by technical ppl or retarded writers (I was talking with force sensitive stone lol, what bull... is this ?)

I have never ever seen game with this amount of bugs, PVP sucks (reb trooper can heal, hit hard, heavy armored, 100000000 of health, 20" dic...., massive car and 10 hot chicks around. Classes are not balanced at all). Someone (developer) I guess has some complexes and want to get back on ppl in game lol.

 

Besides that if you are not ranged forget about Illum = battlefield. Warzones sucks too, at least 5 times a day wins does not count for daily, which is fu... annoying, especially when you stuck for 3h on 2/3 of daily because of it.

 

Customer service the worst ever !!!!!!!!!!!!! They do not respond to your requests, they just copy/paste some senseless crap not related to your question etc.

 

Story sucks too, I was skipping these dialogs after I reached lev 20 (same like text ones in different games).

 

Crafting system has been designed by mentally disabled person I guess, even monkey can craft in SWTOR, just another mini game crap (just click, click click).

 

Many ppl already left game and they still do leave.

 

LOL I was crying when I saw an email from BW, saying that if you continue with subs you will receive founder title lol (who came up with this idea ----> for sure mental IQ 40).

 

I LOVE STAR WARS and I never thought that anyone can fuc... up this title, unfortunately BW is about to do it. I seriously miss SWG, that was awesome game which required some thinking etc. SWTOR is another game designed for idiots.

 

Six yoars of development and another WOW with lightsabers ? BW wake up and take some example from SWG not WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lets wrap it up. This game make me and 1000 of ppl angry instead of relaxed, because of BW ignorance, bugs and customer service quality. Game provides no content, reward system sucks so badly, its just lottery .......... All players look exactly the same, you cannot even change colors of your armor (SWG provided appearance which was fully customized). Companions should be more individual too. Everyone in the game has exactly same looking companions, which are useless after you reach lev 50 because if you want to do anything you have to play in the group.

 

Your ship thing?, I don't see any use of it. You cannot decorate it with trophies (because there is none lol), no one can visit you there too lol.

 

Space combat is a single player joke good job btw for these two individuals for design

 

Lol and this guy in last video about march update, " we do what our players want from us" I wish to punch this guy in the face !!! bulll........

 

BW thinks in corporate way, they dont give a shi.... about what we wont. They wont just more money for nothing, some crappy flashpoints every few months, which can be developed within days.

 

Because of their ignorance to our "calls" I am getting so freaking angry that I will soon del this crap and go back to SWG emu. I am not alone here, trust me. Most of the ppl are just waiting for GW2 - for me another crap ............ with elfs etc

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kozakkoo

[SgtSplacker]

People that don't like the game should just stop playing it just like they would with any other game. Just forget it exists and leave us that do like the game to enjoy it. But if this keeps on this game will go the way of SWG. I see Lucas's point in abandoning his creation. For some reason it has drawn a bunch of cry babies out of the bowels of the internet.

[fireofsev]

Is a SWTOR failure ?

 

Yes, it is. Few reasons why. First of all this bull... that they spent 300 mil ? are you kidding me? Do you believe that. I am pretty sure it was a marketing trick...

 

BW has no experience what so ever in MMO development. They are capable of developing Tetris. I am already level 50 and there is nothing to do. Flashpoints are big joke. 2 operations filled up with dozens of bugs ... Story line is a proper crap, designed by technical ppl or retarded writers (I was talking with force sensitive stone lol, what bull... is this ?)

I have never ever seen game with this amount of bugs, PVP sucks (reb trooper can heal, hit hard, heavy armored, 100000000 of health, 20" dic...., massive car and 10 hot chicks around. Classes are not balanced at all). Someone (developer) I guess has some complexes and want to get back on ppl in game lol.

 

Besides that if you are not ranged forget about Illum = battlefield. Warzones sucks too, at least 5 times a day wins does not count for daily, which is fu... annoying, especially when you stuck for 3h on 2/3 of daily because of it.

 

Customer service the worst ever !!!!!!!!!!!!! They do not respond to your requests, they just copy/paste some senseless crap not related to your question etc.

 

Story sucks too, I was skipping these dialogs after I reached lev 20 (same like text ones in different games).

 

Crafting system has been designed by mentally disabled person I guess, even monkey can craft in SWTOR, just another mini game crap (just click, click click).

 

Many ppl already left game and they still do leave.

 

LOL I was crying when I saw an email from BW, saying that if you continue with subs you will receive founder title lol (who came up with this idea ----> for sure mental IQ 40).

 

I LOVE STAR WARS and I never thought that anyone can fuc... up this title, unfortunately BW is about to do it. I seriously miss SWG, that was awesome game which required some thinking etc. SWTOR is another game designed for idiots.

 

Six yoars of development and another WOW with lightsabers ? BW wake up and take some example from SWG not WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lets wrap it up. This game make me and 1000 of ppl angry instead of relaxed, because of BW ignorance, bugs and customer service quality. Game provides no content, reward system sucks so badly, its just lottery .......... All players look exactly the same, you cannot even change colors of your armor (SWG provided appearance which was fully customized). Companions should be more individual too. Everyone in the game has exactly same looking companions, which are useless after you reach lev 50 because if you want to do anything you have to play in the group.

 

Your ship thing?, I don't see any use of it. You cannot decorate it with trophies (because there is none lol), no one can visit you there too lol.

 

Space combat is a single player joke good job btw for these two individuals for design

 

Lol and this guy in last video about march update, " we do what our players want from us" I wish to punch this guy in the face !!! bulll........

 

BW thinks in corporate way, they dont give a shi.... about what we wont. They wont just more money for nothing, some crappy flashpoints every few months, which can be developed within days.

 

Because of their ignorance to our "calls" I am getting so freaking angry that I will soon del this crap and go back to SWG emu. I am not alone here, trust me. Most of the ppl are just waiting for GW2 - for me another crap ............ with **** elfs etc

 

Where is the part that says you unsubbed? I hope that's coming in your next edit.

[Kozakkoo]

Where is the part that says you unsubbed? I hope that's coming in your next edit.

 

It will happen soon

[SgtSplacker]

Make it sooner!!!

[Kozakkoo]

I need replacement first , Maybe Fallout online.

[ROSS-]

It will happen soon

 

Fixed that for you..

[Kozakkoo]

BTW, I don't expect from you to understand or see all these issues with SWTOR. There is a reason why nowadays developers come up simple games for simple "sheeps" ...

[Rigota]

MMORPGs are about dynamic content not static(story).

[moefling]

I agree with the OP about Free 2 play model is not a failure at all as tons of people think. In fact a well managed free 2 play brings more revenue than the monthly fees.

 

In any case, swtor will never be a free 2 play game. Lucasarts doesn't want that kind of model because it may be seen as a low quality product (even if it's not), and they want to have a reputation of highest quality products (in marketing, having higher prices means "better quality", or to say it with other words: it's more "exclusive").

 

 

A good example was SWG. Lucasarts didn't allowed SOE to adopt the F2P model and they decided to shutdown it just for that reason, and they would make a lot of money without closing it. The "we don't want 2 star wars mmo at the same time" was just an excuse.

 

In an hypothetical failure case, Lucasarts would just close the game and make a new one creating hype again.

Edited February 3, 2012 by moefling

[pyrobot]

Personally, I think the largest "failure" is going to be in the fact that I see so many people looking for "solo" content out of an MMO. Sorry, but if you paid to buy the game, and are paying subs to play the story line, you're wasting money, BW isn't going to keep adding new content for the solo players.

[Urko]

No better textures by the end of March , it will have failed for me.

[Urko]

People that don't like the game should just stop playing it just like they would with any other game. Just forget it exists and leave us that do like the game to enjoy it. But if this keeps on this game will go the way of SWG. I see Lucas's point in abandoning his creation. For some reason it has drawn a bunch of cry babies out of the bowels of the internet.

 

If everyone did , it would go F2P within a year and become some medicore affair.

 

For an MMO technically and visually there is stuff that needs sorting, it isnt about a lot of people DISLIKING the game imo, its lots of people who want the game improved to what an MMO should be like in 2012.

 

I believe where people pull their hair out is that a lot of stuff (the scalable UI that is just being added for one) SHOULD have been in there at launch.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Urko

[DarthChagras]

SWTOR is currently listed at 1.7million subscribers, that's 1.2 million more than they need to be profitable.

 

SWTOR won't die plain and simple.

[Kozakkoo]

SWTOR is currently listed at 1.7million subscribers, that's 1.2 million more than they need to be profitable.

 

SWTOR won't die plain and simple.

 

Lol, firs of all they are greedy, so it wouldn't be enough, second: do you know how much money servers cost a month, customer service plus team of developers ? 500k a month will not even cover this. I know you are a maniac (4 toons already , you must play 24/7) but SWTOR will go away soon, if you like it or not

[OveronQeldorma]

I don't know if I'd say this game will fail or not. All I can say is that I reached 50 on my Merc and realized that the game really isn't fun. The level of immersion doesn't even seem to be there, exploration is completely gone, and I do believe that progression in this game is too fast and easy. I'm not just talking about leveling either, Valor rank, storyline, and gear collection are all waaaaaaay too easy. Also, just in my opinion, the endgame gear (PvE and PvP) looks horrid. Like I said, I can't say the game will fail, but it failed for me personally. Thank you BioWare for making me wait 5 years for a ******** game, I could have been having fun elsewhere.

 

I will be switching to Rift, which is about 10 times better than this game will ever be.

[Jandi]

The game is a failure if you and your 2 friends (the only ones you have) don't like it of course. Edited February 3, 2012 by Jandi

[Kozakkoo]

The game is a failure if you and your 2 friends (the only ones you have) don't like it of course.

 

LoL, said by 12 years old, can they actually do it ? lol

[Krimzonrain]

 

1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure!

 

The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions

 

 

 

I am continuing to play SWTOR for now...so this isn't a hater case at all but I'm in the software industry and have experience in this so let me just say...you do know this is not correct? The development cost...it's well...development costs! You might think if a game costs $300million to develop (most of that was probably paying the actors to which most of us space bar through lol) that if they sold $150m worth of product they are half way there right? You'd be wrong if you did.

 

Video game publishers only receive approximately 25% of the retail price of boxed games after paying any royalties, franchise fees, developer fees (not actual salaries but the company share). Keep in mind Lucas Arts gets 30% right off the top. So if the 25% standard holds true and if what you're saying here is that they sold 1.5 million copes for a net total of $90 million, then they really only walked away with just over $22million. Assuming they can keep a minimum of 1 million people subscribing and paying $15 a month after all the trials are finally over and after their "founders title" deal wears off (which was a great marketing tactic by the way don't get me wrong) they would be clearing around $15 million per month in subscription fees. So if the number you said here is $300m for development costs then that means they have $278million left to cover which at $15m per month would mean it would take around 19 months just to break even.

 

Oh but wait! That's not all folks! How about the datacenters the house those servers we all play on? A strong data center with a high number of servers can easily get in the 10-15Million range per year. And let's not forget the salaries of all of the customer support people that are taking care of everyone who calls in or sends in a support ticket, and oh yes, the developers salaries who are STILL working on SWTOR. And of course there is also the marketing budget to work in here to pay for the TV spots, web ads, etc.

 

Point is...if you aren't talking about the quality of the game and ONLY the financial aspect of the game it has a LONG way to go. And as someone who DOES enjoy playing this game I worry about the population. Everytime I see someone say "if you don't like it then leave" it makes me cringe! Why? Because if everyone leaves what does that leave those of us that stay with? Low pop servers that are boring and hard to do anything with. Then we leave out of frustration and boredom and the game goes to absolute hell.

 

I do agree that this game should not be compared with WoW on it's success if that success is based solely on finances. Wow is many years old where SWTOR is just an infant comparably. WoW is a whole other beast and they aren't even on the same level as far as subscriptions go. Nothing will ever be a "wow killer" and I don't know why everyone keeps trying to make any new MMO coming out to be like it is. However, if you think what you said is true, that 90% of SWTOR's current subscription base could all cancel and it wouldn't die out...you are naive. If we had only 10% of our player base left, let's even bump it up to 200,000 people playing...that wouldn't even pay for the cost of the data center and a few people to run it. Although with only 200,000 I guess you wouldn't need a real data center. Either way it would die out.

 

Here is what makes me nervous about the subscriptions and finances...

 

Everyone keeps telling people if they don't like the game to ****. The problem is some ARE. And that means less money coming in to keep the game alive. You guys need to remember that sometimes people who are complaining about the game aren't complaining to try and get others to quit. They are complaining because they LOVE the game and want to play it but are ticked out of frustration and want it to be better! If nobody voices it, then how will they know what needs improvement to make people happy. This game was made for players...not the developers. Players should be able to speak up.

 

All this throwing around of numbers, saying there were 2 million hard copies of the game sold, I'm assuming that doesn't even account for digital downloads, 1.7million means we have 300k less just off the hard copies...not counting digital downloads. I don't understand how people can still sit there and say "our numbers are growing" when clearly they are not. But the biggest testament to this will be sometime around April when the majority of free trials are over and the "founders title" special is over. Keep in mind, that 1.7 million subscribers DOES NOT mean paid subscribers. I am one of those 1.7 million and I haven't paid a dime yet, because my subscription hasn't expired. Let's look at those numbers again in April and see if it's higher than 1.7 million. I really hope it is...but I really doubt it will be.

[Nonah]

"MMO's don't really get good until 2 years in.." Who said this? I did.

 

It's just the way things are. My example, that I love to use for this, is Star Trek Online. STO is doing something along the lines, of what SWG had going on , with 'Heroic Instances'.

 

You would do the heroic instances with your top-leveled friends, to aquire 'jewelry' that gave you almost 'cheat-code' powers. In STO now, you can do 'STF's' or "heroic instances' to aquire ship or ground components that make you 'better than the average player'. When STO put that system into affect, I found myself playing everyday, meeting, failing, or surpassing my task at hand, and enjoying the game to no end.

 

Yes, it took me away (for the passed 2 months) from leveling my toons in SWTOR, something which I am torn about, since I love this game too. But no matter how much time I spend in STO, I will still pay my $15 a month to SWTOR, because I know this: MMO's don't get their magic together until about 2 years in. SWTOR will add things for level 50 players to do (For 2 years, only thing to do in STO, for top level players was PVP).

 

Lucas has a lot of people talking in his ear (every celeb does). Once the smoke clears, Lucas Arts will remember what made us SWG People love the game so much - not the journey , but the destination - level 50. They are preparing our Level 50 experence everyday at BW.

 

It just takes time to sort through every idea. Give it time. Imagine how good this game will be in 2 years....I ^%&$ you not.

 

"If All you told,

Was turned to gold,

If all you dreamed were new,

Imagine sky, high above,

In Carribean Blue...." - Enya - Carribean Blue

Edited February 25, 2012 by Nonah

[Abanoth]

I'm not having fun and this game isn't identical to WoW/some other game, ergo it's a failure. Edited February 25, 2012 by Abanoth

[Sttm]

What Determines SWTOR's failure is simply playing it and the obvious failure it is will ring true with anyone who is not a mindless fanboy.

 

The combat is a failure due to being based around animation not the players input and the boring class designs that use artificial resource limiting to create monotony in the rotations, the UI is terrible for being stupidly rigid, the targeting system is downright broken and the auto target nearest mob fails as often as it works, the galactic trade network is such a horrible failure you have to scratch your head in wonder at how anyone could think that was a good interface, they copied a dozen other things from WoW why didnt they copy the auction house instead putting in that abortion, the server only pvp is a failure with the faction balance being awful, Ilum is probably the biggest failure in MMO PVP history, they didnt even bother to put in such simple things like Target of Target or a combat log or a dps meter, but then you have the fanboy player base who suck so bad they cry in fear of being found out by a dps meter; then there is the class balance failures of stuns and knock backs and spam spam spam and no rated pvp but then the fanboy player base crys about keeping that out for fear of having to actually play well to get full gear instead of show up. The Map is a epic failure that has pointed me down a staircase only to point me back up that staircase for the same quest!!!! Multiple times on Nar Shadaa! The Space Combat is a failure being on rails and pretty pointless; and really no space combat pvp, how epic would that have been! Then you also have the never ending bugs, for everyone they squash 2 appear!

 

The only thing about this game has that is not a failure is really the story quest elements, but that is not even truly good because the timing of that story is a failure due to having to play it MMO style with long periods of grinding 20 Mob X and 30 Mob Z and looting Y 10 times before killing Mob Q.

[notebene]

These questions are weird to me.

 

I don't understand why anyone would care, other than people that don't get to play any more once the doors close?

 

Unless you are one of those people that can't play an MMO unless all your former guild is with you, and your friends are there (and you were there, and you were there, and toto was there) and you are guaranteed at least 5 years of play...or something like that?

 

Me? If I was the last person there, and I was enjoying myself, and it was worth $15/mo, and the developers were there cranking out content for me every so often, and it was totally rewarding and awesome for them to have just one player and only $15/mo, so they kept the one server I was on running for 15 years, and everyone is happy, did it fail?

 

Yes.

 

Because 'you' are not there, and for some reason 'you' have to declare that since we haven't been graced with your presence any longer, that what you are not doing is stupid and has failed.

 

How many hours a day do you spend meandering...whatever it is you folks meander around...looking for the very next meme and awesomes hipster thing out there, so you can say "I was there!" and then declare it dead ("That was so 43 seconds ago." I guess 13 year old girls are marketing execs now. Thank....God?) when it suits you to move on.

 

Congratulations, you can do anything!

[AshenK]

The failure is already showing look at this forum and the people talking about the game. Everything I'm hearing says it simple, it's not a good game, it's not fun, I want something that's new and innovative, GW2/Tera are going to be better.

 

That's all I hear, both in game and out of game. The group from SWG that I play with? They hate the game and are looking forward to Secret World, a few are thinking about going back to AoC due to how the game just feels better for RP. PvPer's I know hate the game, they feel it's too much of a zerg rush. The Raiders and PvE players? The raids are broken and no one wants to do PvE content.

 

Those are your three main groups right there. Role Players, PvPer's and PvE Players and none of them are happy. All of them are looking at and talking about other games much more then TOR. A good chunk of them have said it, even if BioWare can fix the game and add new things in why should they stay? BioWare is going to be adding in things that other games have for the next two years.

 

So yes I feel TOR has been a failure, even if they do fix the game no one is going to come back when all you hear about is how bad the game is.