What was Bioware´s rationale on not implementing Day/Night and Weather cycles?

[mastorofpuppetz]

They wanted each planet to have a distinctive feel. I.E. on Korriban, the red sky of the setting sun. They also did this because since they are basing the game after the 2 KOTOR games, and time never changed there, they wanted it to have the feel of KOTOR I guess.

 

It's 2011. no excuse.

[fugutaiten]

It is something you think you would miss, but after playing the game for a bit you really don't notice. Most MMOs don't even make it dark enough at night to notice the difference anyway (e.g wow where terrain is just as bright at night)

 

If I was making an MMO though, I'd have day/night, weather and also have different stuff spawn at night

 

Like EQ 1

[Tarka]

They wanted each planet to have a distinctive feel. I.E. on Korriban, the red sky of the setting sun. They also did this because since they are basing the game after the 2 KOTOR games, and time never changed there, they wanted it to have the feel of KOTOR I guess.

 

The "environment scheme" for every planet doesn't have to all be the same in order to implement a day/night cycle, so you can still maintain that "distinctive feel".

[Winnerbagel]

I assume they didn't want to implement day/night cycles because it's wholly unnecessary for this type of game.

 

The traveling largely focuses around planets, so the day/night cycles, if there ever was any, would be too unnoticeable. If the entire game is centered around one planet, then day/night cycles would be a good idea. But in this game, you're traveling off to different star systems, on planets that already vary in their time of day. Having those cycle around wouldn't be very noticeable or necessary as a whole.

[mastorofpuppetz]

I assume they didn't want to implement day/night cycles because it's wholly unnecessary for this type of game.

 

The traveling largely focuses around planets, so the day/night cycles, if there ever was any, would be too unnoticeable. If the entire game is centered around one planet, then day/night cycles would be a good idea. But in this game, you're traveling off to different star systems, on planets that already vary in their time of day. Having those cycle around wouldn't be very noticeable or necessary as a whole.

 

except it is...................... And yes its very noticeable and goes a long way towards immersion. it's 2011, up your standards. Amazing how people try and justify never improving, Bioware ha a long ways to go in world building.

[KlintusFang]

My thought on day and night cycles is this: it isn't really immersive at all unless night is really NIGHT, as in, dark and impossible to see without a light source. I don't expect any MMO will do that again. And if night isn't really night, but is just a dark sky texture with the rest of the world just as well lit up as it is during the day (like WoW, EQ2, etc.) then it isn't really night anyway.

 

I wouldn't mind a rotating cycle of course. Just saying I don't personally find it all that immersive when a game simulates "night" but everything is still just as visible at night as it is during the day. And curiously, that seems to be what most of the people in this thread who support rotating day/night cycles are asking for.

 

edit: as for weather. It would be nice if weather was a little more dynamic. Yes different planets have different feels, but as someone else said, more flucturation in the thunderstorm activity on DK, and some sand [snow] storms on tat [hoth] that actually cut LoS intermittently would be nice too (but frustrating at the same time ). but i understand why that isn't there.

Edited January 3, 2012 by KlintusFang

[gurugeorge]

From my experience,

 

Weather typically bogs down most machines. They most likely held off to get the game up and running and intend to add it later.

 

A few MMOs I have played went this route.

 

Or.....everyday when we adventure in SWTOR land is a beautiful day.

 

Yeah judging by my experience in the beta about 8 months ago, and how the game's changed since then, it strikes me that BioWare are very cautious and incremental in their approach. I think they wanted to get the base game up and running smoothly with the bare minimum necessary (e.g. the UI), so all the variables are controlled. I think as time goes on they will probably introduce things that have been planned all along, to enrich the experience.

 

Not sure whether day/night cycles will be one of those things (although I'd LOVE to see Tattoine at night), but I'm pretty sure the UI will improve, the fps issues, lots of little QOL upgrades, etc.

 

Incidentally, if they do do a day/night cycle, I hope they make the night SHORTER than the day. Fallen Earth had a great nighttime experience, really dramatic and immersive, but because of the psychology of one being used to doing most of one's business during the day, the night cycles, although exactly the same length as day, felt twice as long.

 

IOW, it's nice to experience the night, but not for too long ...

Edited January 3, 2012 by gurugeorge

[Vitellius]

I think fantasy MMO's lend themselves more to this since everything takes place on one world. In this game, you'd have to make a set of weather and day/night that is different for every planet.

 

Other than that, it tends to be more visual than anything else. I remember when WoW got weather after like....a year or something. It was great for about 5 minutes. After that you realize it has no impact on the game then just eye candy.

 

If bioware has bigger things to work on then eye candy, I don't mind living without it for now.

[Winnerbagel]

except it is...................... And yes its very noticeable and goes a long way towards immersion. it's 2011, up your standards. Amazing how people try and justify never improving, Bioware ha a long ways to go in world building.

 

No.. it is not necessary.

 

Say you travel to Hoth. It's night there. How long do you expect this night to last? Two hours? Eight hours? Real time? Considering you want day/night cycles to be as realistic as you please, you can't possibly spend the entire night on Hoth. You have to travel to distant planets eventually. Upon leaving Hoth you will find your next destination has a different time of day, because it's in a different star system. How would this help the immersion factor if the time of day is that frantic?

 

Again, real-time day/night cycles aren't necessary for a space-traveling game.

[Tarka]

I think fantasy MMO's lend themselves more to this since everything takes place on one world. In this game, you'd have to make a set of weather and day/night that is different for every planet.

 

Other than that, it tends to be more visual than anything else. I remember when WoW got weather after like....a year or something. It was great for about 5 minutes. After that you realize it has no impact on the game then just eye candy.

 

If bioware has bigger things to work on then eye candy, I don't mind living without it for now.

 

The funny thing is, a certain amount of weather effects are already in the game don't you?

 

For instance, Tatooine has sand storms that appear if you into an "exhaustion zone". And Hoth has snow storm effects when you climb the mountains. They're just a bit...well...crap. Trust me, if you saw them you're probably agree. It's much worst than the attempts made by other MMO's.

 

As far as I can tell, the HeroEngine is more than capable of having different "environment schemes" for each zone (bearing in mind that a planet consists of many zones). And Day/Night cycles are part of those environment schemes.

 

So, it would appear that the HeroEngine is more than capable of satisfying the need for different weather AND day/night cycles on each planet.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tarka

[Tarka]

No.. it is not necessary.

 

Say you travel to Hoth. It's night there. How long do you expect this night to last? Two hours? Eight hours? Real time? Considering you want day/night cycles to be as realistic as you please, you can't possibly spend the entire night on Hoth. You have to travel to distant planets eventually. Upon leaving Hoth you will find your next destination has a different time of day, because it's in a different star system. How would this help the immersion factor if the time of day is that frantic?

 

Again, real-time day/night cycles aren't necessary for a space-traveling game.

 

When you fly on a plane from one country to another, does it suprise you when you find the time of day has changed? No. In fact, that is expected.

 

Yes, it can be argued that day/night cycles aren't absolutely necessary for this MMO to function. But nevertheless, they CAN add to peoples enjoyment of it.

[KlintusFang]

except it is...................... And yes its very noticeable and goes a long way towards immersion. it's 2011, up your standards. Amazing how people try and justify never improving, Bioware ha a long ways to go in world building.

 

as far as I can tell, standards have been lowered here. EQ had real night time cycles where you literally couldn't see at night without a torch. That was in the 1990s. Since WoW and EQ2 what everyone expects (including you it seems) is a vanity night time sky where the texture is dark but the world is still perfectly visible with the same LoS as during the day. If we want to talk about standards, that standard is actually less immersive than what was done 15 years ago.

[Daygobag]

I would like this also, its not a game ender for me but i would like it at least to add little more depth to the environment

[mastorofpuppetz]

as far as I can tell, standards have been lowered here. EQ had real night time cycles where you literally couldn't see at night without a torch. That was in the 1990s. Since WoW and EQ2 what everyone expects (including you it seems) is a vanity night time sky where the texture is dark but the world is still perfectly visible with the same LoS as during the day. If we want to talk about standards, that standard is actually less immersive than what was done 15 years ago.

 

 

Agreed, and sad thing is people try and defend this, I mean, I like the game it has one of the most boring static game worlds I have ever seen, and yes it takes me out of the game, immersion is a big part of a games enjoyment. It feels so dated in areas.

 

Also learn comprehension i was not the one who was arguing against Day/night.

Edited January 3, 2012 by mastorofpuppetz

[Fraxture]

...but I do remember Luke climbing a hill just to watch a beautiful double sunset.

 

So you want a world simulator?

Not an engrossing game that progresses your character?

Edited January 3, 2012 by Fraxture

[Vitellius]

The funny thing is, a certain amount of weather effects are already in the game don't you? They're just a bit...well...crap.

 

Tatooine has sand storms that appear if you into an "exhaustion zone", and Hoth has snow storm effects when you climb the mountains.

 

As far as I can tell, the HeroEngine is more than capable of having different "environment schemes" for each zone (bearing in mind that a planet consists of many zones). And Day/Night cycles are part of those environment schemes.

 

So, it would appear that the HeroEngine is more than capable of satisfying the need for different weather AND day/night cycles on each planet.

 

I think I saw it rain on Balmorra once.....so what? I barely noticed. What I would like is weather and day/night that MEANS something. If i'm going to demand it that is. Just wanting something that is, at the end of the day, window dressing, will naturally fall to the bottom of the list of "things that need to be done". And rightfully so.

 

Besides a starry sky, night time doesn't really look like night. It's fake. Like using blue filters on your day for night shots on a B movie set. There was a game that MADE you have torches for night because it was dark (EQ was it?) Now THAT is hardcore, but only works if the game has mechanics to deal with that.

 

I like weather and day/night, but unless it's got some punch behind it, I won't care either way.

[Tarka]

So you want a world simulator?

Not an engrossing game that progresses your character?

 

Why can't you have both? After all, according to Damion Schubert that's precisely what Bioware were trying to accomplish.

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001

 

On the flip side, pure games have their problems too. Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tarka

[Mannic]

So you want a world simulator?

Not an engrossing game that progresses your character?

 

Because as soon as you add day/night cycles, that's all your game can be, amirite? You have to take out everything else to make the lighting change and maybe some rain fall once in awhile.

[EzoEo]

Again, this is something bioware are garbage at, ME, Dragon age all boring bland static worlds where NPC's dont move, zero weather, day night.......

 

compare That to The Witcher 2 and it puts anything bioware has done to shame. They SUCk at world building and atmosphere.

 

Running around Vos-Ka I would tend to disagree as it's a very nice looking zone. Dragon Age also had very cool looking zones and Mass Effect 2 had some of the best RPG words I've seen.

 

That's not say Bioware make the best worlds there is but stating they suck isn't very accurate.

[Matte_Black]

WoW has a great story, not our fault you are too damn lazy to read and have to have it read for you.

 

There is a slight difference between WoW's text boxes and SWTOR's dialogue scenes. Lazy has little to do with it. SWTOR's method is much more immersive and I'd even say the story is a bit better written.

[Tarka]

I think I saw it rain on Balmorra once.....so what? I barely noticed. What I would like is weather and day/night that MEANS something. If i'm going to demand it that is. Just wanting something that is, at the end of the day, window dressing, will naturally fall to the bottom of the list of "things that need to be done". And rightfully so.

 

Besides a starry sky, night time doesn't really look like night. It's fake. Like using blue filters on your day for night shots on a B movie set. There was a game that MADE you have torches for night because it was dark (EQ was it?) Now THAT is hardcore, but only works if the game has mechanics to deal with that.

 

I like weather and day/night, but unless it's got some punch behind it, I won't care either way.

 

Just because one person barely noticed something, does that mean that no one else would? Not necessarily.

 

However, I do agree that Bioware should be striving to put things in like weather effects and day/night cycles that are meaningful. After all, this is a sci-fantasy game.

 

It's not unheard of for force-users to use their sabers as a light source in the dark.

Or for non-force users to use floating-balls with a light source to guide them.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tarka

[KerythFOS]

 

I'm not defending that decision in any way. Dynamic weather and lighting would add greatly to this game, and it can be done without killing the atmosphere (but not FPS). It's really just a shortcut if you ask me.

 

It'd be great if they add it later.

 

Please, can some one explain to me what, exactly, having fake rain happen every once in a while or there be a day/night cycle for the planet, adds to the game? I keep hearing people here say how horrible it is its not in the game and how it would add to the game, but, having been in MMO's that had them and then here, i see NO DIFFERENCE

[Fraxture]

Why can't you have both? After all, according to Damion Schubert that's precisely what Bioware were trying to accomplish.

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001

 

[/color]

 

Then that's possibly something down the road.

But I would rather serious issues be taken care of first before we start worrying about the minor ones.

[CVSiN]

Would like to just know when they plan to implement it, the game seriously would feel better with it.

 

they already said they wont..

 

it is for cinematic reasons. they had a specific image in mind for each environment and they want that to be constant for all players.

 

i dont even notice anymore.

[Tarka]

Please, can some one explain to me what, exactly, having fake rain happen every once in a while or there be a day/night cycle for the planet, adds to the game? I keep hearing people here say how horrible it is its not in the game and how it would add to the game, but, having been in MMO's that had them and then here, i see NO DIFFERENCE

 

If a person cannot appreciate the subtle difference between having a seemingly lifeless and static world, and having one that is more dynamic and includes certain elements that we see in "real life", then perhaps they never will.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tarka