nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Without a working DPS/Healing meter you can't run a serious guild. it's as simple as that. *sigh* Why not, are you wanting to take the fun out of the game?? Just DO YOUR JOB and enjoy the game... I prefer experienced gamers rather than, ****!! Yo DPS is wink. plz kickzors him... getz us anover DPS.... please!! DMG Meters will open up a MASSIVE can of worms.. trust me, lok at what it did for WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renatta Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fine if people want damage meters to improve there rotation or whatever that's fine. Just make it so they only have access to their own data and it Isn't linkable. This will fix the issue of people being kicked from groups etc for not doing Leet dps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i wont be alive and the fight isnt going well if the enrage timer wipes my group. its as simple as that. Then, learn the fight, like we had to in ALL MMOs before any such addons..... CALL YOUrSELF A PRO PLAYER... pffff! I wouldn't trust you in any of my raids. Learn to play! Be aware of your situation, your environment... or would you prefer someone to hold your hand?? Sorry, not flaming you, you are just trying to take the fun out of the game... WoW Had major excitment in the vanilla days during raiding, before elitism and addons... then when you got all these addons, you didn't have to think anymore... I know in the heat of battle, sometimes you forget a signal that a boss is about to do something, so to some extent a DBM would be good.. but we are talking about a DMG Meter here, not a DBM. Through experience, you know what rotation to use as you've used it during Levelling.... just learn your calss and certain situations... lifes a learning curve, I don't need an addon to tell me when it's safe to cross the road... I look and listen Or, I use a crossing addon... DOH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowqz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 *sigh* Why not, are you wanting to take the fun out of the game?? Just DO YOUR JOB and enjoy the game... I prefer experienced gamers rather than, ****!! Yo DPS is wink. plz kickzors him... getz us anover DPS.... please!! DMG Meters will open up a MASSIVE can of worms.. trust me, lok at what it did for WOW! no i wanna have fun in this game, this means comparing dps, improving my gameplay and kill encounters without hitting enrage timers. i dont care about random groups, u dont need any dmg for normalmode ops. and if u are telling me ur goal is having "fun" in this game, playing with guys like "Yo DPS is wink. plz kickzors him" isnt an option, with dmgmeter or without, those guys are **** and 0 fun to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fine if people want damage meters to improve there rotation or whatever that's fine. Just make it so they only have access to their own data and it Isn't linkable. This will fix the issue of people being kicked from groups etc for not doing Leet dps! Ahhh, the force is strong with this one.... Excellent idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Obviously, I wasn't there to witness the historical progression of the relationship between mods/add-ons and raid difficulties in the other game, but I have read statements made by others who were there that my quick-n-dirty little code outline is the basic premise of how it has unfolded and it sounds plausible enough to me. That being said, I think we probably agree more than we disagree. I would like to see: A fully customizable UI that includes scaling, a combat log. I don't demand or require: Threat meters, mouseover capability, etc... I'll continue to play: Whether or not they add these things. Although I would continue to play and would likely even even use them(due to expectations), I just fundamentally don't like the idea of dynamic/real-time combat crutches or as some might call them, "idiot lights." You clearly werent. Meter were in the other game since a few months after launch (and there were parsers in the BETA of that other game even). Again, the problem here is too many people making uninformed asumptions that the combat log and the parsers that will come with it will change their game completely. Thats a design desicion that its not based on combat log, parsers meters or not combat log, parsers meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesor Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyone that says they do not want any type of dps meters in the game is either very bad or very confused. Dps/Heal meters - Seperate the bad players from the good. It shows you... who is active the most during a fight who is taking the most damage and from what who is healing the most the abilities people are using and how often etc... Looking at the results of a dps meter will show you many things about a player and whether they know what they are doing or not. So if you do not want this in the game then clearly you are not a endgame player or have any idea what endgame is about. If players are bad and dont understand their class well they shouldn't hold back a guild from clearing content and should be exposed. As far as everything else, you can live without most of it and just adapt. Good players will. Many players don't care about numbers, they care about fun people to play with. While damage meters do have an important role in cutting edge hardcore raiding guilds, that usually represents about 1-3% of the player base. I hope they never implement damage meters in this game and this is coming from a very capable once server-first raider. Damage meters and iLvls seriously damaged wow for most people, turning it into a number-fest. Not all games need to be like that. Please, Please, Please....go back to WoW. That game over there has all that. Let's not take the RPG out of MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think most people haven't realized this. When WoW FIRST came out there we no dmg meters at all. It in fact it had to come from a third party so if you want dmg meters, wait for someone to create it. It's not the communities fault that we don't have a Damagemeter, the game doesn't currently support any UI modifications. If it did, we would have a Damagemeter within 1-2 days or less. So, lets continue to greif @ BW for lack of functions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 no i wanna have fun in this game, this means comparing dps, improving my gameplay and kill encounters without hitting enrage timers. i dont care about random groups, u dont need any dmg for normalmode ops. and if u are telling me ur goal is having "fun" in this game, playing with guys like "Yo DPS is wink. plz kickzors him" isnt an option, with dmgmeter or without, those guys are **** and 0 fun to play with. nope, you just want to boast.. and be an elitist... I rest my case. Your honour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Am I the only one who remembers the days before WoW when there was no meters of any kind in our games, where you were simply expected to know your class, and people played their hearts out? I mean seriously there is not one single encounter in this game even close to the difficulties of raids of old (talking EQ plane of fear runs and the like) and you guys are such poor players that you need dps meters to be able to figure out what went wrong and why? I have done EV and all of the FPs on HM and I have to say every time we've wiped, hit an enrage timer, whatever we have known exactly why and had ideas on how to improve... If you guys can't do that simply by paying attention then you need some serious help. You didnt have them because you didnt knew they existed or because you didnt want them installed, but meters were in wow since vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowqz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 nope, you just want to boast.. and be an elitist... I rest my case. Your honour? u seem to know me well, wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhue Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 We are trying to do endgame content and I am struggling to determine what the best spec / priority / etc. to use when stationary, when mobile, etc. Trying to do that by finding a standard non-interupting mob with lots of hit points on Ilum and then using a freaking stopwatch is NOT terribly successful. So don't report anything in the combat log but the damage that I do and the damage that I take, I'd be fine with that but at least give me some measurable method to determine the efficacy of abilities I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ok im a noob and idk if its the same thing , but if you want to find out how much damage you do a hit or what not doesnt the fly text tell you how much damage you are doing and healing as well those are numbers you can see right? so cant u be like well im doing about 2k a hit with this move cant you just ask after how much the guy next to you was doing? or i mean isnt that how it used to be done back in the days xD? No you cant, because another build maybe does a little less damage per skill but has more cti chance, therefore doing more dps, or you cant compare it because different specs have different skills on different cooldowns, other specs maybe do less damage per skill but allows that skill to leave a free dot. no, you cant just compare skill by skill to know which spec is better, you need to measure your DPS to optimize it. You cant optimize what you cant measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think most people haven't realized this. When WoW FIRST came out there we no dmg meters at all. It in fact it had to come from a third party so if you want dmg meters, wait for someone to create it. Third parties need the combat log to do that. WoW had meters a few months in vanilla and i'm sure i remeber a parser from beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Errrmmmm, yeah, kind of.. ermm, ok.... i think... 'Scratches head' I hated quantum physics, perhaps Dr Brian Cox could enlighten us on your response? Keep reading it, you will get it sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Damage meters and iLvls seriously damaged wow for most people, turning it into a number-fest. Not all games need to be like that. Arguing that damage meters actually damaged World of Warcraft is silly, that's like saying that a speedometer in a car ruins the fun of driving it. Edited January 17, 2012 by Idge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Just gonna take a stab at this one. Your reply is that one of three VERY different things happened, with three very different causes, and three even more different solutions. Really? How do we know which one it is? What happens if it is a combination of them? How do we solve this without a combat log please? pretty sure if you´re not blind you can see if you stood in something you shouldn´t have if you slowly bleed out of life without getting heals you should notice that too ... what the hell do you need a log for that , only reason i´d like a log is too see who ganked me so i can get even.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotomie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 what i would like instead of damage meters would be a window that tells me my performance change for the last 10 fights on this particular boss. i honestly don't need raw numbers which would ultimately lead to e-peen stroking. just something so i can keep track of my personal performance increase/decrease and/or changes caused by spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broned Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 a solution could be that only the raidleader and assistant leader could see the meter, so that the people who need to evaluate the stuff can do that. and punish the failers acordingly. and then the normal members can just focus on the encounter instead of tunnelvisioning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiatra Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Damage Meeters can be both good and bad. I like to see how well a given rotation does, and how much damage i can put out on a boss. But i don't want to end up like WoW where people spam /party with numbers for every given fight to stroke their epeen/redicule others.I mostly heal, and healing done dosent really matter - if the tank dies i failed, if he dosen't i didnt fail. A compromise would be a Damage Meter that only shows how much damage you did yourself, but didn't show party members DPS. That way people would be able to look and and work at improving their own DPS, but you wouldn't be able to directly compare to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsalightsaver Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) What people in this thread don't realize is that without mods Bioware has to keep end game bosses extremely simple and straight forward. The proliferation of mods and meters allows developers to create more involved and interesting bosses because its players aren't babysitting their rotations and personal space. Unless advanced methods of downing bosses appear in this game, I can guarantee you we will be stuck with the two current boss models: A: Stay out of the ground effect and B: Kill the adds. That may be enough for some of you, but it sure as hell isn't enough for me. I played wow for 6 years and I'll tell you something that was consistent for all six years: People who rip on mods and call them crutches were typically some of the worst players I ever encountered. There was an air of "I'm better than you" because that's what they wanted to believe, but their performance always, ALWAYS proved otherwise. Please get off your "I'm too good for mods" high horse, it's not healthy for the game. Edited January 17, 2012 by Whatsalightsaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What people in this thread don't realize is that without mods Bioware has to keep end game bosses extremely simple and straight forward. The proliferation of mods and meters allows developers to create more involved and interesting bosses because its players aren't babysitting their rotations and personal space. Unless advanced methods of downing bosses appear in this game, I can guarantee you we will be stuck with the two current boss models: A: Stay out of the ground effect and B: Kill the adds. That may be enough for some of you, but it sure as hell isn't enough for me. I played wow for 6 years and I'll tell you something that was consistent for all six years: People who rip on mods and call them crutches were typically some of the worst players I ever encountered. There was an air of "I'm better than you" because that's what they wanted to believe, but their performance always, ALWAYS proved otherwise. Please get off your "I'm too good for mods" high horse, it's not healthy for the game. I second this! Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What people in this thread don't realize is that without mods Bioware has to keep end game bosses extremely simple and straight forward. The proliferation of mods and meters allows developers to create more involved and interesting bosses because its players aren't babysitting their rotations and personal space. Unless advanced methods of downing bosses appear in this game, I can guarantee you we will be stuck with the two current boss models: A: Stay out of the ground effect and B: Kill the adds. That may be enough for some of you, but it sure as hell isn't enough for me. I played wow for 6 years and I'll tell you something that was consistent for all six years: People who rip on mods and call them crutches were typically some of the worst players I ever encountered. There was an air of "I'm better than you" because that's what they wanted to believe, but their performance always, ALWAYS proved otherwise. Please get off your "I'm too good for mods" high horse, it's not healthy for the game. Rubbish! Have you ever played any other MMO other than WoW?? Mods have no correlation to bosses or any game play at all, they serve as data/information gathering. Making gamers idle, and less skillful. Kids want MODS (DMG Meters and Gear Score) to boast to their school mates and to ridcule other, making them feel better and more superior than others.... Real gamers don't want a game to become that easy they can sleep whilst they play. MOD fans just prefer an easy life, without the need to think for themselves. MODS are game killers! Although, I did find Deadly Boss Mod useful.. I'm just very Anti-DMG Meters and Gearscore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I second this! Good post I suppose you'll want a two button system soon too?? 1121122111121111 iWin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rubbish! Have you ever played any other MMO other than WoW?? Mods have no correlation to bosses or any game play at all, they serve as data/information gathering. Making gamers idle, and less skillful. Kids want MODS (DMG Meters and Gear Score) to boast to their school mates and to ridcule other, making them feel better and more superior than others.... Real gamers don't want a game to become that easy they can sleep whilst they play. MOD fans just prefer an easy life, without the need to think for themselves. MODS are game killers! Although, I did find Deadly Boss Mod useful.. I'm just very Anti-DMG Meters and Gearscore. Rubbish! Using DMG Meters to analyze performance and calculate better rotations/priorities and tactics is anything but being lazy. You my good sir! Have got your pants on backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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