EvilBoots Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Actually, there really is no need to argue about this, now that i think about it. Once Combat log comes out, someone in the community, hopefully the site Cursegaming, will come out with an addon that takes the combat log and throws all the info into a damage/healing meter. hahaha nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) It seems that the people who are against dmge meters are all referring to world of warcraft. i always had a damage meter running for myself in wow, to see if i am doing good, to see if the dps in my group is doing their part. If they are not i tell them to do something about it, and usually it would increase. The ones who are against damage meters are the ones who were either *****ed at for not having the top 5 in raids, or didnt care enough to farm for heroic runs. If you are in a heroic run, you are expected to be prepared for it, not just run it for ....FUN. If you want fun, go run flashpoints with 3 others, nobody cares about dps there. If you are in a nightmare mode or heroic, yeah you need to change plans, fix the lowest dps, help them out. If they dont get their **** together by 3 or 4 heroics, there is no reason to keep them. Peoples time is precious. lol, this is the best example of what happens to the community when damage meters are introduced. Suddenly the guy who covers for healers when they are out of commission is looked down upon, The off tanks become the joke of the raid, and standing in mild damage to get a little more damage off is top priority..... Also, don't forget about those who don't want damage meters because they have the knowledge and intellect to know how to test their class by other means. Learn some math and build your own spread sheet, or is that to hard for the "hardcore" to manage these days? Edited April 5, 2012 by Codek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBoots Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 lol, this is the best example of what happens to the community when damage meters are introduced. Suddenly the guy who covers for healers when they are out of commission is looked down upon, The off tanks become the joke of the raid, and standing in mild damage to get a little more damage off is top priority..... Also, don't forget about those who don't want damage meters because they have the knowledge and intellect to know how to test their class by other means. Learn some math and build your own spread sheet, or is that to hard for the "hardcore" to manage these days? Why would the guy need to help the healers out if you have healers who know what they are doing?lol You are basically hypocratic here. You say we dont need meters because if you know what you are doing, everything will be fine. But when it doesnt go fine, you need a dps to help heal? I dont get it. And a damage meter is more than just damage. It encompasses everything, errors done by cc breakers, healers who arent pulling their weight, everything. We had a rule in our raid that we were not allowed to post damage meters, yet everyone had one and if you were slacking, you knew that everyone knew, and you got your **** together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Why would the guy need to help the healers out if you have healers who know what they are doing?lol You are basically hypocratic here. You say we dont need meters because if you know what you are doing, everything will be fine. But when it doesnt go fine, you need a dps to help heal? I dont get it. And a damage meter is more than just damage. It encompasses everything, errors done by cc breakers, healers who arent pulling their weight, everything. We had a rule in our raid that we were not allowed to post damage meters, yet everyone had one and if you were slacking, you knew that everyone knew, and you got your **** together. Right...Cause there is no such thing as a boss fight that would ever involve placing a healer in a situation where they couldn't heal the rest of the raid for a short duration. That would be insane! Nonsense! Ridiculus!...Well, except maybe for Soa....But BW would never make a fight complicated like that again. Oh, theres also the trash in Kaon that can lock up the healer indefinitely but that's just a fluke. I'm sure the future will be very friendly to healers from here on out..... /end sarcasm I stand by my argument that a smart (keyword here) raider will realize that something bad has happened to the healers and should in turn, help out a bit to ensure the survival of the raid. Or is that to much to ask mister 1337 DPS to do? Save the raid? Nah.... And yes, I'm sure the combat logs will incorporate everything that takes place in a fight but trying to visualize everything that took place by looking at the reports is like imagining a WWII battle by viewing pictures, reports, and present scenery. It's all just a generalization with the minor details constantly overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronot Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I would really like some sort of combat log. I want to see how good my damage/heals are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOnasi Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) You may be able to evaluate your raid on whether you can or cannot kill a boss or beat the enrage timer but I think a damage meter will give you individual numbers that can help you determine which one person could be holding your group back because they are not pulling their weight. How are you suppose to know one of your healers are doing terrible and is the reason your group keeps dying other than trial and error. I think it is just a tool that gives you useful information that you can choose whether or not to use. And to those who say it is a bad idea because of people spamming out their dps in chat or to others, just make it so you can only view it and not be able to post the damage/healing info to chat. Lastly, I think a damge meter would also be useful in figuring out which spec give you the best healing/dps,especially since there are 3 talent trees to play with. Edited April 6, 2012 by MasterOnasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michealscott Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I, as well as some others out there are under the impression that the combat log is just going to show the individuals activity only. That doesn't seem like a real benefit when, in the past, I was able to gauge my performance with the rest of the other players. How will I be able to improve my performance by only looking at my activity without considering what others are doing? Will there be some kind of benchmark that will help in this regard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valan Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You will go to http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/ and look at benchmarks set by other players with similar advanced class / skill tree / gear level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drykaas Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) Wrong. Only the good people are doing this. The bad people don't even know they're bad. Sorry I meant to say Without DMG meters And you also missed the part where I said if people need help with thier char you help them, why would you be in a guild otherwise. Unless your a jerk that believes that everyone that plays in your guild must go on a Jedi pilgrimage to find out what they can do to improve. Faint smell of elitism. Some people want this game to turn into a dang job, where you Clock in, run your raid exactly as it is supposed to be, clock out, you are then evaluated, did something wrong, you get the incident placed in your personal records. Three incidents and your gone. Keep that Bull at work, I am here to have fun not to pain stakingly beat myself up for a few extra points of Damage. And by giving DMG meters to Ultra Nerds it will be all over the place, people will use them all the time, I dont want to get a message from a random person in FP "you could have done 2k extra damage on that last mob" if you set your Smash to cntrl+F1, it makes it easier, do it...DO it...DOOO ITTTTT!!!!" And if your argument is its the only way to tell if people are good or not, your an idot. If you are running raids with someone chances are they are in your guild. And this person obvisouly has a desire to run raids with you, and you do not take the time to get with that person and help them imrpove, shame on you. Any guild that is running raids should have vent or some other kind of VoIP which makes discussions as normal as the person sitting in the room with you. Most of the people Pro DMG meters use them as a tool to single out people that they deem "Not Good". Then they go and whisper to the guild leader "Look boss at his numbers, Im a good little nerd for telling you that he is not as good as me, I tell you what instead of having personal contact with him and helping him become better, the next time we raid we just say we have everyone we need, and take the uber nerds that we like." LOL not saying everyone does that but it does open the doors for it. Edited April 6, 2012 by Drykaas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onibubu Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Any guild that is running raids should have vent or some other kind of VoIP which makes discussions as normal as the person sitting in the room with you. Most of the people Pro DMG meters use them as a tool to single out people that they deem "Not Good". Then they go and whisper to the guild leader "Look boss at his numbers, Im a good little nerd for telling you that he is not as good as me, I tell you what instead of having personal contact with him and helping him become better, the next time we raid we just say we have everyone we need, and take the uber nerds that we like." LOL not saying everyone does that but it does open the doors for it. From my experience the "skillcap" of most people isnt really high. They can have the best equipment, know the best rotation and skilltree but they just perform bad. Most of the time its "situational awareness" or "reflex" that is missing. You are right for THAT you dont need a xyz-meter. But what if this player performs "good" but its just his damage that is bad? How should I evaluate that? I hear a lot "you dont need that, the raids are so easy". And yes they are right. Even KP or EV on Nightmare are easy. Lets just hope that bioware dont make the Enrages harder. Then we dont need a damagemeter. But if they do, we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginnai Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 For those so inclined, damage meters do exist and will be used by some people/guilds in 1.2. Take a look at my thread in the PTS forum if you're curious: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3777258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Anyone that says they do not want any type of dps meters in the game is either very bad or very confused. Dps/Heal meters - Seperate the bad players from the good. It shows you... who is active the most during a fight who is taking the most damage and from what who is healing the most the abilities people are using and how often etc... Looking at the results of a dps meter will show you many things about a player and whether they know what they are doing or not. So if you do not want this in the game then clearly you are not a endgame player or have any idea what endgame is about. If players are bad and dont understand their class well they shouldn't hold back a guild from clearing content and should be exposed. As far as everything else, you can live without most of it and just adapt. Good players will. You dont need a dps meter to figure most of that out. A personal combat log in a chat window would be a perfect addition, but dps meters are just for people and the e-peen they want to show off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You dont need a dps meter to figure most of that out. A personal combat log in a chat window would be a perfect addition, but dps meters are just for people and the e-peen they want to show off. Nope. Dps meters can be for r e-peen, however ARE a great tool for raid personnel evaluation. By the negative replies we can see who is getting carried by better players If i was not any good, I would not want any dps meters either. Hide away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedRocket Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 meters for players to eval will ruin the game and fill it with wow jerks who will suck the fun out of the game and make it a chore. if your dps isn't to what they think it should be or whatever they'll kick you out or complain just like in wow. right now everyone groups up has fun and tries to be the best player they can be and not what an elitest nerd thinks you should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Nope. Dps meters can be for r e-peen, however ARE a great tool for raid personnel evaluation. By the negative replies we can see who is getting carried by better players If i was not any good, I would not want any dps meters either. Hide away! I dont need a meter to figure out where the group is lacking or making mistakes. A combat log for personal use is all i need. Funny how other games have people clearing raids, epic raids, epic quests and all the hardest content with no damage meter but just a combat log. A meter is just a crutch to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Well, as i have likely said already, but saying again anyway, the dps meter thing isn't a bad idea, its how it is used that makes it good or bad for the game. If raid leaders or guild leaders use it to help their raid/guildies perform better in their role, then its a good thing, but if they use it to blacklist you from future raids and/or guilds, then its a very bad thing. We all know how its used in wow, if you don't measure up, instead of trying to help you perform better, they just call you a noob and say L2P and then just kick you from the heroic or raid, once it gets like this, the game will not last long, that is a fact that i hope never comes true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polonious Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If they put in damage meters I hope you can only see yours and they don't allow a way for people to spam their dps/healing numbers. I really don't need to see how big your e-peen is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) The game wouldn't need Damage Meter if every gosh darn encounter didn't have an Enrage Timer. If Bioware insist on Enrage Timer, I insist on Damage Meters. It's as simple as that. If I fail I like to know why. Edited April 7, 2012 by Dee-Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerv Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 In addition, no combat log makes it damn near impossible to find out what killed you... it was the fire STAY OUT OF FIRE ...personaly a dps is fine you kill the game for alot of peeps that arent leetist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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