It's unbelievable that anyone thinks this is okay.

[twotimingpete]

The fact that there's a debate around the lack of bracketing is mind numbing. This is common sense. For as much expertise and time it takes to craft a massive game like this, lacking common sense to the extent that they'll allow new level 12s to make an attempt at a warzone and be instantly converged on by level 40s and 50s is astounding.

 

It reminds me of some of the things I saw in Star Wars Galaxy back when it first came out. I was a seasoned MMORPGer at the time, having spent a great deal of time pvping in Dark Age of Camelot.

 

People in Beta were training in creature handling and taming multiple rancors, which, individually, could kill any player. I thought this was some kind of beta oversight that would never make it live, and it did. The thought that a company was able to make a complex game but lack common sense to that level made my jaw drop. I just couldn't believe it. Everyone in port was running around with two mountainous beasts following them.

 

Brackets in WOW always seemed like common sense to me. It was just assumed. "Oh, level 15s can queue for battlegrounds too?" It was just assumed that they'd be against people in their own level range because that was common sense. You never even considered the possiblity that you'd be fighting level 50s.

 

It speaks to not just bad judgement by bioware that level 12s are queueing against level 50s, but it speaks to sort of a perversion of common sense, that's now pervading the playerbase. The fact that this is even a discussion is amazing to this old hound, but I suspect I'm not alone.

 

We all know that brackets will go in sooner or later. It's a fact. Why? Because, as a rational human being, I recognize it as common sense. Whether the developers and community see it now is irrelevant. Brackets will be coming and one day people will look back at this and facepalm.

 

So just do it sooner rather than later to keep the embarrassment (and damage to the culture of PVP in this game) to a minimum.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[Draemos]

It's unbelievable that people don't realize brackets result in the exact same scenario. Feel free to look at any other MMOs level bracketed PvP and you'll see the end result is no different.

[Ixodor]

The only brackets i see coming would be a lvl 50 only one. I LOVE the bolster pvp, if you are good a lvl 10 CAN take down a 49. Granted its not likely but i have done it. This means that while lvling you dont have to really worry about gathering pvp gear either because there is no pvp gear below 50 hence why there NEEDS to be a lvl 50 bracket.

 

Only players i see complaining about this system are the bad kiddies.

[Carbonated]

you hit the same at 50 as your do at 10(well with a marauder at least except for smash)

 

You cant compare wows brackets to sw:tor because wow does not bolster.

 

Longer queues etc...you know all the other arguements im sure they are listed in one of the bajillion threads.

[dazer]

in b4 "GO BACK TO WOW NOOB"

[rlhaas]

Bioware is handling it. Eventually. I think. At least, somebody said they were. I'd love to have a pet rancor.

[Libertine]

listen ... its been said before and im gonna say it again.

 

right now, brackets are not feasible simply due to the lack of high lvl players.

give it a month or so and BW will implement a seperate bracket for lvl50 and one for the rest.

[twotimingpete]

It's unbelievable that people don't realize brackets result in the exact same scenario. Feel free to look at any other MMOs level bracketed PvP and you'll see the end result is no different.

 

In WOW, I've rolled and rerolled many times. I've gone up through the BGs many times. If you step into a BG at level 10-15 or so as a total newb, then yes, twinked level 19 will kick your ***. The difference is the disparity. You can pull yourself up by your bootstraps, level up to 17-18-19, get some decent blues, and while the most twinked people will still have the upper hand, you CAN compete and there will be plenty of people whose *** you can kick. And it repeats each bracket as you level up. 10-19 you go through zero to hero. 20-29 you go through zero to hero. 30-39.. etc. I've done this. Many times.

 

You face adversity, but there's no presence of level 40s and 50s that will always outmatch you, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you work, until you yourself hit those levels. That's the difference. And bolstering -- don't make me laugh. Unless you want to bolster the stats about twice as much as they are now, which may create other strange problems. It's just not a good idea in general.

 

This is ruining PVP.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[rlhaas]

listen ... its been said before and im gonna say it again.

 

right now, brackets are not feasible simply due to the lack of high lvl players.

give it a month or so and BW will implement a seperate bracket for lvl50 and one for the rest.

 

There are plenty of 50's running around destroying lowbies in PvP. This 'excuse' is tired, get a new hotness.

[Just_CPJ]

Yea the people in this thread are pretty much correct in my opinion. The bolstering really does make a huge difference. Honestly, the people who really have a system are the baddies even though I hate saying its a L2P issue but it is. Multiple times I've been in Warzones and I'm like hmmm this guy is a really good player and he happens to be in the 20s. At the same time you'll have teammates that are in their 30s and are garbage.

 

Player skill level is more of an issue right now than 40s battling 19. Now matches where 6 of the 8 players are 50 is not too fun but that rarely happens currently.

[Shurax]

Newest fanboy trend is: Don't worry it will be fixed in 2 months.

And lol to the guy thinking a 10 does the same damage as a 50 with gear, get a fkin clue.

[Libertine]

There are plenty of 50's running around destroying lowbies in PvP. This 'excuse' is tired, get a new hotness.

 

 

plenty ? really ? on which server ?

cause on Hydians Way im lucky if its me and another 50 99% of the time.

Only time we get 4 or more is if we join with a full group.

 

just do a /who at peaktime and do the numbers before trying to be smart...

[blackadda]

Agreed on the bracketing... as a lvl 50 i now take a good look at the team roster and if i see less than 4 other 50's... and see the opposition team is all 50's

 

I just go into "Frag mode", get my 8 medals and forget winning... because actually trying to win is pointless when the other 7 ppl on the team are lvl 10-15..

 

 

as a "lowbie" i used to think i was doin ok...but thats because there werent any 50's around .. nowdays as a PVP geared 50 I typically have 4500 more hitpoints and significantly higher damage, crit rating, accuracy and bonus damage than a fully twinked out level 10 does

 

Not to mention dmg mitigation and more "tools" to use..

 

To say a PvP geared 50 dominates vs lower levels is an understatement.... it consists of ...3 shots crit hit... kill...next target...4 shots...kill...next target...

 

attacked by 2 lowbies...kite a bit if they are melee...spam DOTS...kill 1...kill the other... still have 50% health......heal...next target...

 

Type to team... ohh im being hit..its a level 10... let him beat on me for a few shots... decide i should shoot back... kill him in 4 shots...next target.

 

Level Brackets are badly needed.

Edited January 2, 2012 by blackadda

[TheRealBrave]

10-29

30-49

50

 

Problem solved.

[AnimalPotential]

Its unbelievable that you guys dont know that the current system is a "Bracket first, gear second, bolster third" system, and refuse to read up on how it works.

[twotimingpete]

10-29

30-49

50

 

Problem solved.

 

And this may not really be a bad idea. Bracketing doesn't necessarily mean we should be 10-19 like WOW, (though that is preferable) it's the absolute disparity of the 10-50 bracket. It's particularly damaging to the playerbase at the low end. Lowbies just starting out shouldn't have to face off against the pvp titans of the server, who outmatch them in not just player skill but have vastly more abilities and talents and better gear.

 

And I'd bet $1,000 that brackets (beyond 1-49 and 50s) go in sooner or later. The reason being that common sense tends to win out eventually. Then we can all look back and laugh.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[AnimalPotential]

And this may not really be a bad idea. Bracketing doesn't necessarily mean we should be 10-19 like WOW, (though that is preferable) it's the absolute disparity of the 10-50 bracket. It's particularly damaging to the playerbase at the low end. Lowbies just starting out shouldn't have to face off against the pvp titans of the server, who outmatch them in not just player skill but have vastly more abilities and talents and better gear.

 

 

 

We HAVE brackets... come on, learn the system before you criticise...

[Bubalous]

you hit the same at 50 as your do at 10(well with a marauder at least except for smash)

 

You cant compare wows brackets to sw:tor because wow does not bolster.

 

Longer queues etc...you know all the other arguements im sure they are listed in one of the bajillion threads.

you don't hit the same unless the lvl50 is in crap gear without expertise, not to mention the abilities and talent points which increase their damage (some of wich are flat out damage increases so unless they didn't spec they will allways hit harder) a lvl 50 does have and a low level doesn't.

there should and probally will be a lvl50 bracket when enough hit max level, the expertise just is an 'unfair' advantage otherwise and you basicly get the equivelant of the wow twinks except here they are lvl50 with their full set of tools and talents and in full pvp gear, and you are not ofc.

You can allready see this happening in bg's now tbh, just check out who the ones are that are on the 'unkillable streaks' they are usually the lvl50's in full pvp gear.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Bubalous

[twotimingpete]

We HAVE brackets... come on, learn the system before you criticise...

 

I don't know what you mean. When I queue up at level 13 I'm slaughtered by people in their 40s. As an MMO vet and SWTOR noob I recognize this as unfun and will avoid it "for now". Actual casuals or pvp noobs who would like to get better will recognize this as frustrating and may just never come back.

 

The fact is that in WOW, I can pvp in each level range and have fun and be as good as anyone else in the battle if I work at it. In SWTOR, I'll never be able to compete or be the best until I'm at the max level. That ruins the fun of leveling up in BGs.

 

If you think generic stat boosts normalize everything and make it fair, you're on crack.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[AnimalPotential]

I don't know what you mean. When I queue up at level 13 I'm slaughtered by people in their 40s. As an MMO vet and SWTOR noob I recognize this as unfun and will avoid it "for now". Actual casuals or pvp noobs who would like to get better will recognize this as frustrating and may just never come back.

 

 

 

The system looks within your level range first, if it cant fill the group within a reasonable amount of time (I dont know the exact time) it goes up a set amount of levels.

if it still cant fill the group within a new set time, it will go up again.

 

It will keep doing this until it fills the group.

 

THEN, it will look at the stats you have based on your gear, and boost that up to level 50 equivalent.

 

THEN it bolsters your level stats.

 

Basicly, its a bracket - gear - bolster system.

[twotimingpete]

The system looks within your level range first, if it cant fill the group within a reasonable amount of time (I dont know the exact time) it goes up a set amount of levels.

if it still cant fill the group within a new set time, it will go up again.

 

It will keep doing this until it fills the group.

 

THEN, it will look at the stats you have based on your gear, and boost that up to level 50 equivalent.

 

THEN it bolsters your level stats.

 

Basicly, its a bracket - gear - bolster system.

 

The importance of instant queues is being put ahead of a fun game. The gear bolster system is silly.

 

It may be a nice idea on paper but it's not working out. I'd rather wait in the queue while I do some solo PVE until I can get a nice balanced match against people my own level than instantly queue and be crushed by people I have no fair chance against at all. If they're worried that waiting in a queue will damage pvp, I think noobs being tossed in the deep end of the pool and instantly taken apart by high level players will damage pvp far more.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[AnimalPotential]

And do you think everyone agrees with you on that?

 

The forums is a minority in games dude.

 

I would gladly be beaten once, and have around 5 minute queues.

Then be dont have to face higher level players, but only get a warfront every 40 minutes, like for example RIFT and AoC.

 

Im not saying the system is perfect, but its a hellofalot better then JUST brackets.

Does it need tweaking? Maybe, but turned into JUST brackets? No thanks.

Edited January 2, 2012 by AnimalPotential

[twotimingpete]

And do you think everyone agrees with you on that?

 

The forums is a minority in games dude.

 

I would gladly be beaten once, and have around 5 minute queues.

Then be dont have to face higher level players, but only get a warfront every 40 minutes, like for example RIFT and AoC.

 

You may like the system now, but it's going to do damage to the culture of the game. The inherent "unfun-ness" of low level queueing is still being discovered and debated, but in the long run, it's going to stop people from even wanting to do it. The fun and relative fairness (yes, some people will overpower you, but you can level up a few levels and concentrate on getting some decent gear, and be totally effective) of low level brackets in WOW is what kept that pvp community alive and healthy for so long.

 

If we get to the point where low levels aren't queuing anymore because of this, then they'll get a bracket. I just hope we don't have to let things get to that point. Sooner or later, folks.

Edited January 2, 2012 by twotimingpete

[Zlodo]

It's unbelievable that people don't realize brackets result in the exact same scenario. Feel free to look at any other MMOs level bracketed PvP and you'll see the end result is no different.

You're wrong. The only issue in those mmos is gear difference. In swtor you have both this AND the fact that low levels have access to much fewer abilities and specing options.

 

Gear difference never bothered me in wow, even when playing BGs as a fresh character of max level. The discrepancy don't last long.

 

The real issue with the lack of bracket in swtor is that you are playing a class at low level that lacks most of its important tools, against players who have all of them.

[foxkeh]

The system looks within your level range first, if it cant fill the group within a reasonable amount of time (I dont know the exact time) it goes up a set amount of levels.

if it still cant fill the group within a new set time, it will go up again.

 

It will keep doing this until it fills the group.

 

THEN, it will look at the stats you have based on your gear, and boost that up to level 50 equivalent.

 

THEN it bolsters your level stats.

 

Basicly, its a bracket - gear - bolster system.

 

Thats a nice system in theory, but in reality i'm always in huttball, with half the people in there level 50's. I dont really know about the benefits and disadvantages about this system, but i do know its the first mmorpg where i hate doing pvp. Its simply not fun fighting lvl 50 characters as a lvl 20 , and i doubt its fun as a lvl 50 fighting lvl 20's.