Annoying Cover

[Headko]

Gonna ask if is that annoying gunslinger cover needed? Its that massively boring to everytime take cover and after that just shoot. Nothing like jump mooving and shoting with better skills.

Remove it...

[LucasBishop]

play something else

[SpringDrive]

I'm fine with it, I think it makes sense. It doesn't annoy me at all.

[ZDProletariat]

Yeah obviously the person bunny hopping around is so much more skilled.

[Draksen]

The cover system is very interesting, and imho shouldnt be removed at all, it's the smuggler's

 

The only problem with it as we speak is that it creates an additional "action" before being able to do dps.

Instead of firing, or channelling/firing or casting/firing,

you have to cover+firing, cover + channelling/firing or cover + casting/firing

 

Sure certain talents remove the casting time, or lower it, so it's ok.

But it still slows down the dynamic of the smuggler in pve, and especially in pvp:

you still have to stop and cover before doing dps.

So sure you have tools to "stop" you foe before stopping yourself, but it makes the combat static: I stop you, then I stop myself, then I dps. If you see what I mean.

 

Even worst: with the skill-delay most players are suffering it makes the smuggler almost unplayable in most situation - talking here about those who are really suffering for that skill-lag! -

 

If you have a 2 sec delay on skill activation it's already terrible, but if you have to add +2 sec on cover activation, it becomes 2+2 = 4 seconds lag, which makes your class strictly unplayable in pvp action: personally I am dead most of the time before being able to cast my first attack because of that, while on the other hand I can keep a somehow fluid dps with my trooper, as a comparaison.

 

My two cents of €

Edited January 2, 2012 by Draksen

[Quddy]

Could not agree more. Love my smuggler, but the necessity of using cover for 70% of my actions slows the gameplay significantly. Heaven forbid you get drawn into combat by rolling forward, out roll out of range while moving to avoid aoe dmg. But all this is known to anyone playing a gunslinger.

 

Griping is fine, but I have a solution. Make no abilities tied to cover. Just give cover a dmg reduction from enemies and a dmg increase against enemies. That way when a fight gets hectic you can bounce around and avoid dmg, but when it settles down, you can pop cover and blast away.

 

And for goodness sake, tidy up the amount of abilities we have. I ran out of space on my bars around lvl 30. All of this should have been covered in beta btw. Any of you who rolled gunslingers over the summer should hang your heads in shame. You all did a very poor job.

[knarral]

Could not agree more. Love my smuggler, but the necessity of using cover for 70% of my actions slows the gameplay significantly. Heaven forbid you get drawn into combat by rolling forward, out roll out of range while moving to avoid aoe dmg. But all this is known to anyone playing a gunslinger.

 

Griping is fine, but I have a solution. Make no abilities tied to cover. Just give cover a dmg reduction from enemies and a dmg increase against enemies. That way when a fight gets hectic you can bounce around and avoid dmg, but when it settles down, you can pop cover and blast away.

 

And for goodness sake, tidy up the amount of abilities we have. I ran out of space on my bars around lvl 30. All of this should have been covered in beta btw. Any of you who rolled gunslingers over the summer should hang your heads in shame. You all did a very poor job.

 

Uhh, wow. Cover is fine, L2P.

 

Edit: you can also use abilities whilst getting in cover.

 

You only have to use it once the fight starts, and once after being CCed. only three damaging abilities are tied to cover: aimed shot, charged burst, and speedshot. Combat in this game is not a "one button = MAX DPS!" It's a combo system, and we have 6 real abilities to be used in a combo situation (aimed, speedshot, quickdraw, trickshot, charged burst, and flurry). We have 3 AoE abilities (XSFB, thermal detonator, and sweeping fire). We have 5 survivability cooldowns (hunker down, dodge, the personal -20% (I think) damage taken, the AoE -20% damage taken, and our CC break). We have 6 CC abilities if you're a sharpshooter not including our interrupt (a stun, a root, a targeted knockback, an AoE knockback, an AoE +45% chance to miss and **** out of cover, and an AoE mez). We also have 4 cooldowns if you're a sharpshooter + 2 relics (illegal mods, smuggler's luck, cool head, rapid fire, and 2 relics of your choice). We have a semi-useful melee ability, a buff, and our recuperate ability. As far as I can remember, this is it. Wanna know something else? This is standard for every class (minus the whole "tied to cover" gunslinger mechanic).

 

Wanna know how many abilities out of all of that are tied to cover? 5. Only 5. 5 and 5 alone. Aimed Shot, Speedshot, Charged burst, hunker down, and pulse detonator. That's not 70%. In fact, that's less than 50%. 6+3+6+5+6+3=29 abilities, 5 of which are tied to cover. The calculator says that's actually 17.24% of our abilities that are tied to cover.

 

Please, don't spread misinformation about this class.

Edited January 5, 2012 by knarral

[justntrue]

yup. couldn't agree more with previous poster.

 

too many actions, not enough synch with smuggler toolset, too many overlaps, too many actions.

 

What SS needs is a trim on the actions, and fewer pre-req actions to perform before becoming active.

 

It slows down combat so much it's extremely annoying. I've found that to get the most enjoyment out of this class in PVE is to outlevel the content I'm supposed to be doing (due to needed defence) then run around using the smuggler toolset to run'n'gun with corso/whoever to clean up the mess.

 

SS could use a clean up. Agree again on Beta. Poor job.

[knarral]

yup. couldn't agree more with previous poster.

 

too many actions, not enough synch with smuggler toolset, too many overlaps, too many actions.

 

What SS needs is a trim on the actions, and fewer pre-req actions to perform before becoming active.

 

It slows down combat so much it's extremely annoying. I've found that to get the most enjoyment out of this class in PVE is to outlevel the content I'm supposed to be doing (due to needed defence) then run around using the smuggler toolset to run'n'gun with corso/whoever to clean up the mess.

 

SS could use a clean up. Agree again on Beta. Poor job.

 

You didn't read it, did you? I didn't say it was too many. I said it was standard.

 

Edit 2: That is not to say that it's a poor job. If you want to know what needs a "clean-up," go to WoW and play a hunter. You need more than 48 keybinds to play a hunter competitively in PvP. TOR has nothing on hunters as far as clean-ups are concerned. Besides, the smuggler doesn't feel clunky, everything works, and combat is made to be a combo system rather than a "LOLSPAM1ABILITYFORMAXDPSIAMSOUBERPOWERFULICOULDKILLGOD!" system.

 

Edit: Also, only ONE ability has a pre-req. Trickshot. And it's prereq is that you use aimed shot or charged burst first. We use charged burst a lot. Trickshot should almost always be used on CD because of this. The only time it shouldn't be is if aimed shot, quickdraw, or speed shot is off CD. But aimed shot is also a pre-req for trickshot, the GCD is 1.5s, and speedshot should be used directly before aimed shot because A) that's when it should be off CD and B) to guarantee that aimed shot is 1.5s instead of 2.5s. Quickdraw is instant. Therefore you should still have time to hit trickshot and have it do its damage. Bad playing is bad?

Edited January 5, 2012 by knarral

[Synavix]

Wanna know how many abilities out of all of that are tied to cover? 5. Only 5. 5 and 5 alone. Aimed Shot, Speedshot, Charged burst, hunker down, and pulse detonator. That's not 70%. In fact, that's less than 50%. 6+3+6+5+6+3=29 abilities, 5 of which are tied to cover. The calculator says that's actually 17.24% of our abilities that are tied to cover.

 

zomgz U missed sabotage charge nao Ur hOle post is wrong!!1111!

 

In all seriousness, I agree with Knarral on this topic almost completely. While I do think we have "more than enough" abilities as it is, and would expect to see some trimming down if more get added in future expansions, it's fine how it is now. People just need to learn what to use and when, instead of trying to use everything. As people get more geared up there will be an even more distinct difference between spec/fight specific abilities I imagine.

 

I also agree we don't have too many abilities that require pre-reqs. A small portion of our heavy hitting standard abilities require us to use our class-defining ability (cover). Nothing new to games there. Trickshot requires other spells to be cast first, which isn't difficult to achieve or really a nuisance at all, like knarrl posted. I suppose you could also count our sub-30% ability, or our "requires the target to be incapacitated". But really, all three of those can be seen on other classes as well, both in this game and nearly every other MMO's in abilities that require the enemy to be in critical health, stunned, or as reactionary abilities to dodge/parry/engulfed in flames/etc.

 

As for cover...it's how smuggler's work. I'm sure it will get polished over time, but it doesn't need to be removed.

 

edit: just to be more clear on my second paragraph. Already by level 10 you see abilities on the other classes in the trooper's "High Impact Bolt" (requires DoTs on target) and the Jedi's "Riposte" (requires the target to make a successful melee or ranged defense). In addition they have abilities that "cannot be used on targets in cover" regardless of the situation, and I'm nearly certain each or most classes also have their own sub-30% move.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Synavix

[Aerithel]

Could not agree more. Love my smuggler, but the necessity of using cover for 70% of my actions slows the gameplay significantly.

 

You know, this reminds me of what Mark Twain said in "Chapters from My Autobiography" (1906, North American Review): "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"

 

Wanna know how many abilities out of all of that are tied to cover? 5. Only 5. 5 and 5 alone. Aimed Shot, Speedshot, Charged burst, hunker down, and pulse detonator. That's not 70%. In fact, that's less than 50%. 6+3+6+5+6+3=29 abilities, 5 of which are tied to cover. The calculator says that's actually 17.24% of our abilities that are tied to cover.

 

Please, don't spread misinformation about this class.

 

Tip o' the hat, sir.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Aerithel

[Infanta]

Im lazy, id like for cover to auto trigger when you use an ability that needs it

 

In PVP you get knocked out so much (ranged or melee) that can be annoying...you can scream at me to stay max range as much as possible but lots/all classes have some form of stun, speedup, jump, pull, mez, etc

 

Failing that, even an icon that shows what stance you are in because sometimes its hard to see (standing in flames, clouds, people swarmed over you )

 

Or even a macro

 

Besides that, it is a clunky mechanic, although i am glad they have fixed some of the issues in the last patch(s).

 

Empire mirror looks to be a lot more refined than us...

[Synavix]

Im lazy, id like for cover to auto trigger when you use an ability that needs it

...

 

Failing that, even an icon that shows what stance you are in because sometimes its hard to see (standing in flames, clouds, people swarmed over you )

 

Or even a macro

 

Honestly a pretty valid complaint from my standpoint. Well, aside from your reason being "I'm lazy".

 

Macro's (while not needed) are defiantly something that needs to get added in soon or UI modability, even if for other reasons.

[Quddy]

First off, I thought this was a forum where we could share our experiences and suggest improvements. Silly little comments like "L2P" have no place it that context. We have all bought the game, enjoy playing it, and are keen for improvements. But if we insist on editing each others posts ad nauseum, so be it.

 

Combat in this game is not a "one button = MAX DPS!" It's a combo system,

 

A combo system is one where a series of abilities unlock subsequent abilities. The word you are searching for is "rotation". Healing, tanking and damage rotations are no new thing. Those of us who have spent time with any MMO are well familiar with them. The point I was trying to make with my post was that it felt as if too much of my rotation was tied to being in cover.

 

And yes, when I said that there was "the necessity of using cover for 70% of my actions" I was indulging in a little hyperbole. Perhaps it would be better to say it feels like 70%. But thats no matter. However, if you are going to insist on counting up abilities, do try to get it right. You missed two, Sabotage Charge as noted above, and Scrambling Field. On this I would direct you to your previous post:

 

Please, don't spread misinformation about this class.

 

But all this aside, please don't follow me onto other threads just to flame my posts. It's uncool. Judging from your join date, I think you may have taken my comment about the beta testing a little too much to heart.

 

At any rate, it would be nice to see some feedback on my idea for changing the cover mechanic. The best use for these forums is as a vehicle for advancing ideas for improvement, not knee-jerk condemnation of anyone with an opposing view.

[knarral]

First off, I thought this was a forum where we could share our experiences and suggest improvements. Silly little comments like "L2P" have no place it that context. We have all bought the game, enjoy playing it, and are keen for improvements. But if we insist on editing each others posts ad nauseum, so be it.

 

 

 

A combo system is one where a series of abilities unlock subsequent abilities. The word you are searching for is "rotation". Healing, tanking and damage rotations are no new thing. Those of us who have spent time with any MMO are well familiar with them. The point I was trying to make with my post was that it felt as if too much of my rotation was tied to being in cover.

 

And yes, when I said that there was "the necessity of using cover for 70% of my actions" I was indulging in a little hyperbole. Perhaps it would be better to say it feels like 70%. But thats no matter. However, if you are going to insist on counting up abilities, do try to get it right. You missed two, Sabotage Charge as noted above, and Scrambling Field. On this I would direct you to your previous post:

 

 

 

But all this aside, please don't follow me onto other threads just to flame my posts. It's uncool. Judging from your join date, I think you may have taken my comment about the beta testing a little too much to heart.

 

At any rate, it would be nice to see some feedback on my idea for changing the cover mechanic. The best use for these forums is as a vehicle for advancing ideas for improvement, not knee-jerk condemnation of anyone with an opposing view.

 

1. L2P has a place in this argument. If you need to drop into cover after every ability, you're doing it wrong.

 

2. I do not "follow you into threads." I have posted in two threads that have you in them. Don't spread misinformation about the smuggler class and don't spread misinformation about me.

 

3. Join date has nothing to do with this argument, and I didn't say anything about beta.

 

4. I am not condemning you, I am stating why you are wrong and pointing out that your misinformation is just that.

 

5. It's actually not a rotation. It's a priority system that feels like a combination of different abilities and never just spamming one, hence a combo system.

[Quddy]

Last post here. Hate myself for getting drawn into an argument with an obvious troll, but oh well.

 

1. No, if you actually have a better way of doing things then let them speak for themselves. Typing "L2P" doesnt help the person understand your position.

 

2. Yes you absolutely did flame my post in the other thread then follow me in here and flame me in this thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=128344&page=2

 

Thats a link of you directly quoting my post 20 mins before you came in here to do the same.

 

The rest of your "points" are all yours if I'm honest. Trying to wrap my head around

 

I am not condemning you, I am stating why you are wrong and pointing out that your misinformation is just that.

 

Back to the dictionary for you mate.

[broned]

didnt take time to read all replys but you just shouldnt /cover and then just start pressing you buttons.

 

atleast, i dont. i tend to use the talent point of instant charged shot when going in to cover bonus. so what i do is: when the cd on the talent is rouhly over i fire my last charged shot. then i stand up and press my quick shot/quickdraw (or what the name is) in the same global is i go back to cover and then i got an instant charged shot again.

 

and it is very usable on fights where movements are high

 

 

i have one bad thing about it though. i dont know if its a latency issue or what it is. but when ever i get a "circle of incomming damage" and its move or die i tend to be stuck to the place like half a sec longer than i should be, dont know if its intented. ofc irl you cant just go from sitting to running in a sec. but it makes it really hard to get out of those "circles of bad" in time.

 

like on the esseles hc end boss i go from100% hp to 5% or so, because im just slowed that short time.

Edited January 6, 2012 by broned
adition to cover problems

[knarral]

Last post here. Hate myself for getting drawn into an argument with an obvious troll, but oh well.

 

1. No, if you actually have a better way of doing things then let them speak for themselves. Typing "L2P" doesnt help the person understand your position.

 

2. Yes you absolutely did flame my post in the other thread then follow me in here and flame me in this thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=128344&page=2

 

Thats a link of you directly quoting my post 20 mins before you came in here to do the same.

 

The rest of your "points" are all yours if I'm honest. Trying to wrap my head around

 

 

 

Back to the dictionary for you mate.

 

I'm not trolling here. I do not flame people. I make my opinions clear.

 

You don't like them. You don't agree with them. That's fine, but that doesn't make me a troll.

 

Condemning: to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.

 

I am not judging you. I am not censuring you. I am not disapproving of you in any way. I am just stating that your points are incorrect. The only person who is condemning anyone is you.

 

L2P has its place. If you can't understand that, maybe you don't belong in the forums. If you're having trouble with cover, you need to learn how to use cover. That, in essence, is "L2P." You don't like it, and you don't have to. But it's true.

 

Also, hasty generalization much? Even if it were true and I were trolling specifically you, I have only posted in two threads that have you in them. You have no evidence for your claim.

 

I posted my opinions, and you didn't like them. Fine. You don't have to. But don't spread misinformation about me.

 

Edit: In the other thread, I posted this:

 

Shift+f or whatever other keyset you bound it to. Or, since natural cover is fixed, you can just use natural cover.

 

The "need to deselect knockback/pull abilities" is a companion bug, not a lack of smuggler polish. It happens to the JK, too. Theirs is just less annoying, because theirs doesn't actually move the targets a whole lot. Actually, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't every class have companions that have one or two bugged abilities that turn back on after resummoning?

 

Edit: Reverse Engineering is RNG. You don't get a new schematic every other time, you get it when your dice are lucky.

 

Also Edit: Smugglers don't use aim, we use cunning.

 

What part of that is flaming? I'm actually telling you useful information.

Edited January 6, 2012 by knarral

[Celerian]

zomgz U missed sabotage charge nao Ur hOle post is wrong!!1111!<snip>

To be fair, unless you spec Saboteur it's usually not worth the time and energy to use (in PvE). Edited January 6, 2012 by Celerian

[Elyons]

yup. couldn't agree more with previous poster.

 

too many actions, not enough synch with smuggler toolset, too many overlaps, too many actions.

 

What SS needs is a trim on the actions, and fewer pre-req actions to perform before becoming active.

 

It slows down combat so much it's extremely annoying. I've found that to get the most enjoyment out of this class in PVE is to outlevel the content I'm supposed to be doing (due to needed defence) then run around using the smuggler toolset to run'n'gun with corso/whoever to clean up the mess.

 

SS could use a clean up. Agree again on Beta. Poor job.

 

 

Ah, you must of forgot to train Charged shot, Aimed shot, Trickshot, and Quickdraw. That or your using a hideous combat rotation - considering that I can pull down and three and a mob full of regulars before Corso dies.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Elyons