skyflash
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Posts posted by skyflash
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This is the best approach. Make it worth the players while to stay, and/or increase the rewards for the people that have to play short handed.
No its not the best approach.
How do you want to reward people in full T3 gear that are done with dailys?
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good thing for many people they have not yet made use of that then.
by the time they implement this, I am pretty sure most of the serious pvp crowd will be long gone. so no harm done at all, perma leave for better pvp in other games (like gw2) > swtor wz lolpenalty
Good for the leavers and AFKers, yes.
As its the only way to fix the problem, I am pretty sure it will come with ranked games or soon after that.
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they have a right to utilize the very limited lifetime they possess as they see fit.
Yes and Bioware has the right to penalize them for leaving until they stop doing it as Bioware sees fit.
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People currently don't care about objectives on the whole. Most people just want to do their Daily and log out.
You are damn right.
And thats why stopping them from leaving the BG is the only way to FORCE them to play to win. As long as they CAN switch BGs to a winning BG, they will do that, no matter which rewards you give them. Even if you reward for objectives, they will STILL leave BGs to find one where it is much easier to get their objectives.
On my server, players are leaving the BG every time they dont have a premade group on their side. This will continue, unless Bioware stops them from doing it.
Your solution will not do that and jumping BGs will be even worse soon.
Your solution is good for fixing other problems, but useless for the leaver problem.
We still need a leaver debuff and dailys that require winning.
We could give out a second bag for a daily that requires objectives... but we just can not take out the current win daily, thats not possible.
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My way eliminates their REASON for quitting.
No it doesnt. I told you why, and you didnt have any arguments against it.
So you probably already know you are wrong.
Here again, just for you:
- What happens after players have completed their dailys? How do you fix leaving of people that completed their daily? They dont care about your objectives.
- How do you fix full T3 players leaving the game? They dont care about objectives, rewards, medals, valor, whatever. They will leave the BG if they dont seem to win.
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But I'm suggesting making the COMBAT objective.
That will only work if you make it a requirement, not if you make it optional. If people can cap 6 turrets instead of attacking 3 and defending 3, people will not have contradicting objectives.
For contradicting objectives, you have to REQUIRE players to defend turrets, and REQUIRE them to capture turrets. Now, those dailys will take a LOT more time then the ones now, because it may take forever for you to actually capture a turret.
And how do the healers capture turrets? If you do not require the healers to capture turrets, your system wil fail. Healers will complete dailys by healing someone... anyone.. doesnt matter.... Healers will stay at a turret and heal themselves until their daily is full.
Now... your system does not work for those reasons anyway.
But now, what happens after players have completed their dailys? How do you fix leaving of people that completed their daily? They dont care about your objectives.
How do you fix full T3 players leaving the game? They dont care about objectives, rewards, medals, valor, whatever. They will leave the BG if they dont seem to win. And they will not win, ever, cause no one will care about winning anymore.
Your solution will break PvP forever.
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Well, if you had played Warhammer Online, you would know your idea fails in reality.
In Warhammer people would attack a castle, while the enemy would not defend it. Then the enemy would attack another castle, and no one would defend it.
Why?
Because if winning is completely irrelevant, it is much faster to just create a 5:6 result in 1 minute and then do the next BG. Why fight the enemy? It just wastes time.
Players will learn fast, in Warhammer it took like 2 weeks for people to realize the fastest way.
A skillfull PvP server with smart players will be able to complete 10 games with a huttball 6:5 in maybe 15 minutes.
Objective trading is ALWAYS faster than PvP combat.
As long as the objectives of the one group does not mean the other group can not get their objectives, the system will not work. You need contradicting objectives, otherwise there is no conflict and the two sides will play together.
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I was doing a Warzone earlier today and got kicked back to the login screen. Ok, I'm a scumbag and I admit it!
So wouldnt it be great if after your relog you would end up in the same BG you left to be able to play it to the end?
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Per WZ these actions cannot be performed more than once and still count towards your daily. This system rewards people for completing the objectives instead of penalizing a significant portion of the player base for crashes.
LOL so you think we cannot have a penalty for leaving because of the crashes? Maybe, just maybe the crashes need to be fixed, now?
Also in MY system you wouldnt be penalized for crashing, just if you crash and do not log back in to the BG you left. But if you dont log back in, then the 15 minute debuff wouldnt bother you anyway.
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SOLUTION;
- Change the conditions for the Daily/Weekly rewards so they aren't W/L mandatory.
- Change medals so that they HEAVILY reward objective play, not solo farming.
That's it ... ? Pretty much!
Ok, lets say we do that. We change the daily so that people do not need to win the game, but they need to pass the ball, score points, cap posts and something like that.
Here is what I will do:
- In huttball, I will zerg in the middle and wait for the ball to reappear so I can pass it to somebody that makes a goal or I will just run through trying to make my own goal for my daily. And you wont get the ball, cause I got ForceSpeed and a shield. I wont pass, ever, unless you are behind the goal line.
- If the enemy has the ball and does run away out of my range, I wont go chasing him, because it doesnt matter if he scores a point, cause if the enemy scores a point, it doesnt affect my daily, so why should I care? Let him run, hopefully he will let me run too so we both get a point for the daily.
- I will never ever heal again, because healing will not get me anything for my daily, at most I will heal the 75K for my medals.
- If I capture a turret and got my 3000 medal I will move away from the turret so the enemy can capture it, so I can recapture it for objective points. I fully expect the enemy to do the same for me, cause defending a turret is useless more or less.
- I will just let the enemy run through all the doors in Voidstar so he gets all his daily objective points, and he will hopefully do the same for me.... maybe we zerg a little bit at the end so we get some more medals.
This is PvP after your great reward for objectives idea.
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Change the daily to require 6 Warzone completions and award a bonus for wins.
Great, thats actually the worst idea I have heard up to now. It has the disadvantages of both ideas and advantages.
People would just join games and if it looks like losing they will go AFK. It would be worse than now.
No AFK penalty but strong incentive to go AFK... wow.... what an idea.
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That's a good point of view, but doesn't help getting rid of leavers and weak-willed casuals. The last sentence nothing more than an idealistic statement which works in a full PvP-oriented premade but is a utopical nonsense in respect to the PuGs, and the main concern and QQ-ing on the forums is about the latter and how to improve experience in them using only technical means.
Your change does not get rid of the leavers either.
As soon as people are done with the daily quest they will start leaving again.
Medals need to be added for game objectives, thats a good and decent idea.
But without a penalty to leavers and afkers the system will never work.
You can reward for not leaving... but only until they have all the rewards and dont care for rewards anymore, then the problem starts again.
You can change the daily quest to be easier to complete... but it will only help until they completed the quest, then the problem will start again.
The only NOT-BANDAID fix to the problem is a leaver and AFKer penalty.
Here my suggestion, again:
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Guys, currently some people are leaving, and it feels really bad for the people that get stomped because of it. But you need to realize, that THIS currently is just the tip of the iceberg.
There aren't that many people full T2 and gearing up with T3 yet, and those are the players that currently ruin PvP for you. There aren't even full T3s yet, at least not many. And those people will, on average, be MUCH WORSE in the leaving department.
Overall, in the coming weeks and month the situation will rapidly decrease to a huge BG jumping, PvP ruining fragfest. You have seen nothing yet, just imagine what will happen when people with NO INCENTIVE TO PLAY AT ALL are in the queue playing with Randoms.
It will be MUCH WORSE in a few weeks. Much much worse.
- No one that wants to give rewards as an incentive has stated how to motivate the full T3 players to stay in a game as you cannot reward them anymore.
- No one that wants to give rewards has stated how to overcome the current, HUGE reward given for leaving a BG to T2 players that gear up with T3 by completing Dailys and Weeklys. That reward is PLAYTIME and is a very limited resource for many players. It is very hard to overcome.
If there is no type of deserter buff or sticky BGs in a few month when most PvPers reach BM and a large part reaches full T3, PvP in this game will die. Period.
Bioware needs to do something NOW before it gets out of hand:
- Remove the AFK mechanism in safe zones
- Fix the D/C bugs
- Fix matchmaking
- Separate Premades from Random BG
- Fix equipment > skill
- Fix choosing a BG
- Implement cross server functionality
- Make BGs stick to the player so he rejoins his BG on reconnect
- Implement deserter debuff if players are gone at the end of a BG
- Implement AFK detection mechanisms that actually work
- Implement AFK voting
- Implement progressive AFK penalties
And then, after leaving is fixed, you can:
- Add medals for team oriented actions and fix healer medals
- Add more team oriented daily and weekly quests
- Lower the reward for the win daily and weekly quests
- Add rewards for medals that interest T3 players (expensive mounts, Titles, Social Gear)
This, for me, is the way forward for SWTOR BG PvP. Similar stuff has to be done for Ilum and Tatooine of course. And I believe if they dont do a huge portion of this, PvP in SWTOR will die soon, but thats just me, and I could be wrong.
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Speedhacks und vor allem Teleports sind recht simpel zu detektieren serverseitig kosten aber halt eine Gewisse Menge x an Performance. Entsprechend schaltet man sowas in bestimmten zeitlichen Abständen an und aus. So kommen die berüchtigten Bannwellen bei der Konkurenz zustande. Die Architektur von SWTOR an sich ist bisher sehr schwach geschützt gegen Client Injections wie es scheint.
Naja, so wie bei allen anderen Spielen halt.
Klar kann man sowas alles aufspüren, wenn man dafür halt akzeptiert, dass das Spiel unspielbar wird. Eine gewisse Menge x an Performance ist nett gesagt, du musst auf dem Server eine "continuous collision detection" durchführen für alle Entities, genauso gut kannste dich selber ins Knie schießen als Programmierer.
Falls du keine Hardware hast, die sowas für dich erledigt, kannste SpeedHacks nicht verhindern.
Richtige Teleports sind zwar relativ einfach, aber ich vermute mal das hat Bioware soweit im Griff.
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and by March none of this will be an issue lol
If they do not fix this by March, you are right.
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sorry, aber bei allem was ich seit wochen im pvp durchleiden muss..
bleibt mir bei deinem post schlicht die spucke weg.
Mag sein, aber ist leider Realität.
Auch WOW berechnet auf dem Client, ebenso Warhammer, AoC, you name it.
So wirds nun mal gemacht. Momentan.
Cheater muss man anders erwischen, der Server kann sowas nicht leisten.
Deswegen gibts ja Warden usw...
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How are people getting punished via glitches? If you click "leave warzone" you get a 15 minute debuff. If you disconnect or get a glitch you get thrown out of the warzone with no debuff.
No you arent. If you disconnect, you have to return to your BG before it ends, otherwise you get a debuff.
Disconnecting, crashing, glitching, pulling out your cable and ALT+F4 will all lead to a debuff if you do not rejoin the BG before it ends.
Why?
Cause you canot distinguish netween them.
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Here for your reward system for objectives:
My system rewards people for doing things relevant to the Warzone they are in.
Instead of Wins or losses to complete the daily or weekly you have a large number of actions which are count toward your daily.
Actions such as planting the bomb in Voidstar. Such as preventing the enemy from capping a Turret in Alderaan. Such as passing the ball to someone in Huttball who then proceeds to score.
Why would anyone care about actually WINNING after that change?
You change it to this.... PvP will die.
People will try to plant bombs and cap turrets. All of them. At once. No one will defend the guys doing it.
People will pass the ball. But only to the guy that actually scores.
People will defend turrets... but only AFTER they have been captured... no one will wait and actually DEFEND one, waiting for an enemy to appear.
While you guys are doing whatever, I will wait in the middle of huttball for the ball to appear so I can pass it.
PvP will die. Nuff said.
No incentive for winning -> Nobody will try to win.
It will be a huge objective trading party.
You will never cap anything btw, nor get any ball.. cause I got Force Speed.
Good luck with your healers BTW, I am sure they love your idea.
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But suppose I role with a premade and we all vote to kick someone for fun. Other people can just jump on the bang-wagon and vote too, assuming the player opted for a kick is AFKing, or they can ask in the chat 'why is he being voted for'?
'He's AFKing' ... 'Oh, OK! I'll vote too then!'
Most wouldn't bother checking.
That may happen in like 1 of 10000 cases. Fine with me.
Why should the premade do that, repeatedly, it will lose the game with one person gone.
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But I've got a better idea that doesn't punish people via glitches and may encourage EVERYONE to get better and be more objectively minded when playing - it also doesn't punish but doesn't reward people either for leaving but rewards them to PLAY not just to STAY.
I'll set up a new thread in a bit.
Dont bother.. its not possible to reward players for objectives, because they will abuse the living hell out of it.
You can ADDITIONALLY reward them for objectives, but the full T3ers will not care, they dont need your rewards. They leave anyway.
If the daily quest does not require a win, nobody will ever try to win, they will just try to personally complete the objectives and screw everyone else.
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My Premades are going to abuse the ever living **** out of this.
Oh look, me and my 6 friends "magically" got into the same match because we queued at the same time. WHAT A COINCIDENCE.
Hey guys...LOL I got a great idea. Lets AFK votekick this random so he can't re-queue for 30 minutes....HAHAHAH.
Its not possible, with cross server BGs the chance of ending up in the same BG with more than 4 people is like winning the lottery.
You will need the vote of one of the other players to kick someone.
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A voting system could be abused, though. Instead, make the players 'work' to gain a reward and incentivise them to do certain team-orientated actions.
Yes it most certainly can be abused, but if you need 5 votes to report an AFKer then that means premades can not AFK vote anyone, so we dont have much of a problem.
As with leaver debuffs, eventually you WILL have someone as collateral damage, but that has to be accepted for the greater good.
I myself will happily accept a wrong 30 minute debuff every day if that means the other 10 games are without leavers and afkers.
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Yup 11 people on my team, 8 on yours. Perfect stuff. If you think that isn't an exploit, you are very sadly mistaken.
Not only does it not work properly, its random.
Well that IS an exploit.. lol. It has nothing to do with matchmaking.
And matchmaking is NOT random. Bioware will match premades against premades. You can easily see that when you queue as a premade, your time until the BG opens will be about 400% of the time you have in solo queue.
Anyway, that was not my argument.
People will quit games anyway, even with perfect matchmaking. People really want to roflstomp the enemy team, they dont want an even group, they want a better group than the enemy.
Fixing matchmaking will NOT fix leavers, it will only decrease it by a small amount, and those arent the people I am worried about.
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Es war nicht meine Schnappsidee Dinge auf dem Client laufen zu lassen anstatt auf dem Server. Das man das nicht tun sollte ich nun mal gut gehütetes Geheimnis sondern seit vielen vielen Jahren für Jeden bekannt.
Wobei ein Speedhack ein Doppelfail ist, weil man sowohl per Client cheaten kann und der Server nicht mal prüft ob das was da gerade ab geht überhaupt nach der eigenen Spiellogik sein kann.
Und mir will einfach nicht in den Kopf wie man heutzutage noch so fahrlässig ein MMO programmieren kann und auch deswegen war die Entscheidung das Abo nicht zu verlängern so einfach.
Erm.. sorry, aber da fehlt dir das technische Verständnis für um das zu beurteilen.
Man muss Sachen auf dem Client machen, da der Server das performance mässig gar nicht kann. Jedenfalls noch nicht, vielleicht kommen wir da bald hin, gibt ein paar tolle neue Spielzeuge, die hatte Bioware aber damals noch nicht.
Speedhacks / Wallhacks (hier: Wände hochgehen / durch Wände gehen) kann man nicht wirklich verhindern, da der Server zwar grob checken kann was der Client ihm sagt, aber keine Möglichkeit hat zu sehen was zwischen den zwei Positionen passiert ist.
Zusätzlich muss der Server Lag mit einplanen und benötigt Zeit um zu berechnen, das heisst der Client kann durch Ausnutzen aller Toleranzen die Geschwindigkeit des Spielers ein gutes Stück erhöhen. Irgendwann spielt aber auch der Server nicht mehr mit.
Das was Bioware da abgeliefert hat ist von dem was ich sehen kann gute Arbeit. Jedes moderne MMORPG berechnet vieles auf dem Client, das ist völlig normal.
Berufe auf dem Client zu machen ist ein fail, ja. Aber ich denke, da ging die Zeit aus.
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So people think ... meh, probably lost it so I'm going to AFK because doing that will be quicker than getting a debuff by quitting, and they can requeue immediately after this match is lost.
So they think wrong because they get a 30 minute debuff for AFKing, so they will definitely NOT requeue anytime soon. Hello AFK voting.
People leaving wz is now out of control.
in PvP
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Yes it does. Like every PvPer that won 3 games and is done with his daily. Plus the T3 players.