Hi All, I've been working on getting back into the swing of things, re-acquainting myself with the system and new things. I suspect I'll be max level on my Sorcerer in the next week or so... I guess I'm just looking for guilds that are actively recruiting for PvE activities (specifically, flashpoints and operations). I'm flexible with which class/role I can pick up - I chose Sorc because I always wanted one, but I'm not fixed on it. Things about me: Played basically every AAA MMORPG released for the last 10 years Raided competitively as DPS, Healing, and Tanking roles in many games Love variety and complexity Completed both EV and KP nightmare speed runs when they were current content (Bad Manners [R], Krayt Dragon) Enjoy RP but don't want it to get in the way of playing on harder difficulties Have held positions of guild leadership in different capacities over the years, but am looking to contribute as a solid performer to a great team I understand with the expansion coming in October, not everyone is raiding right now, but I felt that I'd like to get a bit of a headstart for when the new content drops.

I find the best way to use the UI (and alllll its limitations) is to have all bars showing, bind as many keys as possible to easy keystrokes, and make your most common heals the easiest to get too. I leave the main bar as 1-=, the second middle bar as alt 1-6 and shift 1-6, the left bar has an assortment of bindings (e f g shift-e shift-f shift-g alt-e alt-f alt-g), and the right bar is pure click abilities (recuperation, smuggler buff, fleet pass, shuttle, etc) I position the operation frame in the bottom left corner, using 2x8 columns (for 16). We generally position the tanks in the first group, DPS in groups 3-4, so it's all pretty easily identifiable. Without scalable/movable UI pieces, there really isn't a lot to do. I'm not a big fan of multi-button mice because I find in the heat of battle, my thumb really doesn't know the difference between the 12 buttons at its disposal (or whatever). I use a Razer Orochi for light-weight, high DPI movement - saves me on carpal tunnel.

I'd like to think that it'll still be a HoT, it'll just have an extra-large initial tick to help with burst AE healing. We won't know until this "chunk of improvements" (as GZ puts it) comes to light, but I'm still hoping.

What I would like to see the most for us is another HoT. Turn Kolto Pack/Infusion into an instant-cast HoT that heals for roughly the same as 2 stacks of Slow-Release, lasts as long (15-18s is fine), and still costs the UH/TA + some energy cost (maybe drop it to 10). That would give us another viable UH/TA dump, as the overall healing done per UH/TA stack would be higher at a cost of the delay in which the healing is done (and the marginal energy cost). OR Make Diagnostic Scan like the channeled heal Sages/Sorcs get (add a marginal cost, say 10-15 energy). Keep the crit tick mechanic the same (mimicking the free energy return Sages/Sorcs get from critting on theirs), but make the heal from it worthwhile. This helps increase the value of Alacrity to Ops/Scoundrels as well, helping us gain value out of current itemization. Either way, if we had another worthwhile periodic heal, it would give us that extra bit of niche love (best hots in the game, compared to best (only) damage absorb for Sages/Sorcs, and best (only) reactive heals for Merc/Commandos). I don't hate how my Scoundrel plays as a healer, I just want it to do more along the already carved out lines.

I think the confusion is coming from the idea that Alacrity has 0 benefit to us. This is not the case. Alacrity has SOME benefit to us, but its benefit is half that (or worse) of ANY OTHER PRIMARY/SECONDARY/TERTIARY stat (Crit, Surge, Power or Cunning). The benefit it provides us over the long term is MORE DIAGNOSTIC SCANS to fill in the regen the faster casts are costing us, and the occasional extra Underworld Med/Kolto Injection (like every 10% of alacrity over a 5 minute fight). RuQu is not saying to completely avoid Alacrity because it's not beneficial (because evidence doesn't show that), he's saying to avoid it because the benefits it provides are marginal and counter-intuitive.

The Soa platform phase is always a game for me - I play the "can I get the tank back to full before the Sage AE heals do". I don't pay attention to anyone else's health (except maybe mine), and just keep my Slow-release medpac stacked, Kolto Cloud, and use Emergency medpac whenever I have UH stacks. If I have spare GCDs, I'll hit other people nearby with slow-release for fun as well. Honestly, the SoA drop phases aren't us at our worst moment (there's a lot of time for our HoTs to tick where no other healing is going out), but I understand how saddening it is to see everyone filling up soooo much faster than you ever could heal them.

Thanks Bobudo - Not really sure why my thread got closed, guess I should have titled it differently.

Tanks who run way off (leap, charge, whatever) without notice and completely out of the range of healers and complain that they died, like we intentionally betrayed them to death's icy talons. Give me a heads up - you never know what I might be doing with my hands.

Hi Georg, I've read through your Q&A reply to us a few times now, and gotten over my initial knee jerk reactions and despair. I'll pull it up for reference sake (at least the section I want to ask more about): Based on this statement, I would like you to provide us with your data. There's no reason to be afraid (heck, in some other games, players can do this investigatory work themselves), in fact, it may go a long way to shedding light on this topic. The data I'd like to see is the following: How many Operations groups (or percentage of groups, if you don't want to give us raw numbers), specifically on Nightmare mode, have completed all bosses with a Sage/Sorc healer in the group. Then I want to see the numbers on the number of Ops groups that have completed Nightmare mode content with Commando/Merc heals, and of course, another for Scoundrel/Operative heals. If you're feeling generous (and want to help us with our math), you could also provide us with a population breakdown of level 50s split between the classes (Like Sage/Sorc vs Commando/Merc vs Scoundrel/Operative) so we can corroborate or dismiss the argument that "because there are more Sages/Sorcs playing, the percentage of completed Ops groups with Sages/Sorcs in them is comparable". Please provide us with these numbers not because we don't believe you, but because we genuinely want to know. I want to trust that your data is good (I have no reason to doubt it isn't), but I want to see the data myself so I can feel comforted and sleep better at night. Thanks

You may be able to go all out to heal yourself faster once, maybe twice - But what happens to your energy regen when you've blown it all on those big bursty heals? How is a Sage not able to do the exact same thing (Hint - their Big Heal + their Channel is just as bursty, if not even more so, than ours) without the regen penalty. What about their available resources (regen aside)? They can do it over and over and over again. Scoundrels/Ops cannot. I said it in the other thread, and I'll say it here - Stop trying to argue that we're bad because we can't do x,y,z - The fact of the matter is, most people aren't reporting that at all. What we're reporting is that we can't do it as easily/efficiently as Sages/Sorcs can, and as such, are less desirable/have a more frustrating time of things.

You are so misguided it isn't even funny. What's your guild and where's the video of you clearing KP/EV Nightmare 8 with 2 Operative healers (and no other healers). Because if you're taking 3 healers for 8-man content, you're not proving anything about the viability of the class. If you're talking about taking 2 to 16's (out of 4 healers), you missed the point I made. If you, as a tank, feel that a 4K-ish bubble + the HoT + the channel + the same big heals Ops have is somehow less desirable than a big heal + a HoT + an occasional top up burst heal, I don't know what to tell you other than that you don't know how to look at numbers. Heck, if a Sage/Sorc decides to drop their AE heal on the tank it's superior to an Ops' HoT (almost). It takes less time to cast (compared to 2 GCDs to 2 stack the Op HoT), and assuming the tank doesn't need to move too much, heals more consistantly (every second instead of every 3?). Stop trying to make it sound like Scoundrels/Ops are bad because they can't do things - We know we can do things (I've personally done them). We want to do things as well as other classes so the stated design philosophy of different, but equal, is met. Currently, it's not.

*pulls out his cane and walker* In my day, we healed hardmodes in quest greens/blues and oranges with crappy mods from Hoth! To be fair, gear isn't going to be your worst factor to get around - player skill will be. Good players who respond quickly to visual queues (extra adds, cast bar, ground reticle, etc) and do the needful wil get you through the encounters. Worst case - do every instance on normal at least once so you get a handle on mechanics. Very few (if any) mechanics change between Normal / HM, at least on the 50 normal instances, and even then... they usually involve adds or interrupts or reticles...

Best response on this thread yet. 10/10

He probably should have filtered his response through one of the people they pay to manage the community if he couldn't control the tone of his language. Enraging the already upset crowd with vague, dismissive comments doesn't help anything. That said, let's wait and see what 1.2 brings (and hope it comes sooner than later).

Yeah, my account is staying cancelled for now. We'll see what the 1.2 notes bring - maybe if enough of us stop playing our Scoundrels/Ops, their metrics will actually show them what we've been saying.

I guess the point we're trying to make is that he COULD have come out and explicitly stated just that, but did not. In fact, he tried to dismiss the fact that there's an imbalance (by both stating there isn't, and then trying to provide faulty examples of how things are "fine"). If Georg truly meant that Scoundrels needed help, he would have come out and said so without mincing words. He didn't, and instead said "Wait for 1.2, we're bringing you improvements, of which 1.2 is filled with chunks of them". Why send a message about hope that's so thickly-wrapped in dismissive, convoluted tripe unless you don't want it to be construed as hopeful?

I wish I could carry this analogy on further, but it's making me sad and hungry at the same time... and we all know what kind of vicious cycle that is.

My market research shows that all snacks are able to be enjoyed, no matter the situation (now, and in the future). There are even some situations where some snacks may be challenged (say, pants pocket on a hot summer day + chocolate) to provide the goodness, but still succeed. There is no goodness-imbalance.

Now with 20% less packaging, so you can get to the creamy goodness that much faster! Oh, you wanted more creamy goodness? Ingrate.

This is the part that bothers me the most, because I don't think he realizes what he's saying. Could 2 Scoundrel healers heal Nightmare 8s? How about Commandos? I can guarantee you 2 Sage healers could (and that many guilds only run with Sage healers). I believe the answer to my first two questions is no and no - there's simply too much burst healing required on too many targets for double-Scoundrel to be viable. I'm not even sure double-Commando would work out any better. Scoundrel + Commando would be dicey too. Of course any Healer archetype can heal any Flashpoint/Operation on any difficulty (I've done them all as a Scoundrel). The issue is how difficult and stressful it is to do, and why anyone would want to play as a class with half a toolbox worth of tools. Touting the "mobility requirements" bs makes me laugh because Sages have us beat there too - Shield + HoT + Front-loaded Channel (break the channel to keep running if need be) puts out WAY more healing than stacking Slow-release medpac and hoping we get a UH stack to blow on an emerg medpac while running (or hoping we can eke out a 2s cast for Underworld Med). I'm hopeful that 1.2 comes with sufficient changes to render Scoundrels/Ops desirable healers. I'm cynical enough to believe that it won't, because if there's anything this Dev team has proven time and again, it's that they don't value the feedback Scoundrels/Ops are giving them.

It'll make it more of a quick save so Sages/Sorcs have time to get their AE heal down. I'll take anything that this point to make us more AE-viable (seeing that current Raid design emphasizes raid-wide damage).

Yeah, it seems to be the only silver-lining in the unresponsive UI this game totes haha... We knew it had to come to an end some day.

The tone he uses is pretty maddening. I'm actually in shock that he feels an extra 1.6-3.5K heal THAT COSTS A GCD AND A UH/TA STACK somehow counts for burst healing? I thought it was just us ekeing it out... Guess this means Scoundrel/Ops healers are doomed to become obsolete.

Your first line says trooper and your subject says Scoundrel... which are we talking about? With the recent nerf to Surge, the value of Crit has diminished as well. There are pretty lengthy explanations on which stat is good for who all over these forums, but as a start for Scoundrel/Operatives: Cunning >= Power > Crit > Surge > Alacrity This doesn't hold true always, but is a good start to gearing yourself. I suspect if Alacrity ever affects the GCD/tick rate of HoTs/tick rate of Energy return, the value of it will skyrocket to near the top.

Short answer: Because Sage/Sorcs get better, more efficient, more numerous, and more varied tools to deal with incoming damage (both in PvE and PvP). Because the Dev team has obviously balanced Healing around the toolset at the disposal of Sage/Sorcs, and has made no clear indication of even ACKNOWLEDGING a problem with Scoundrel/Ops. Play it to 50, try healing hardmode Flashpoints (although they've been nerfed QUITE a bit since release), try to justify your slot in an Operation over a healer that out-produces you on a consistant basis, and come to your own conclusion about the class. Long answer: Read Bobudo's posts. Like, all of them. Then, maybe move on to RuQu (who, while a Commando, has spent a lot of time/energy analyzing Scoundrel numbers). There is no magic way to distill all of our collective experiences into an easy to read, succinct explanation, but they come pretty close.