I can see where AFK'rs/match throwing could be an issue. With that in mind, we could instead attach the drops to Performance based on playing the Objective. The more Objective points, the more rewards you receive. I agree that players focusing on DM'n instead of the objective generally results in a loss but I do not agree that the Operatives ability to grab the ball, roll twice on an 8s CD that you can't CC in any way and they can pop an uninterruptible heal every-time they do its isn't a problem. It most certainly is and needs a solution.

I agree. Exploited mechanics should be fixed and you have some good suggestions(I’ll add to OP). I don’t agree that abilities should be disabled on ball pick-up, just make them drop it and reset to mid. Players should have access to their abilities so they can choose to carry or drop i.e. stealth spiking the ball back to mid if you’re gonna die and there’s no one to pass too. The notion that Operatives are not outperforming all classes atm is just isn’t true. Anyone playing pvp can tell you that(especially if you play melee). I agree that I don’t want to see them get hammered by the nerf bat, just a small tweak to their roll CD, CC break, or immunity or some combo of the three would bring them back in-line i.e. keep CC break/Immunity make it 1m++ CD or maybe 30-45s CD but remove CC break or immunity.

Exploiters get banned for win trading in Ranked, we would punish win trading in Regs the same way. 🤷*♂️

It’s definitely tough out there atm...Q’d an 8v8 the other night, there was a group of 3 Concealment Operatives roaming around, hard-stun-bursting ppl down together then vanishing again. 🤦*♂️ Not much you can do in that case but in general Operatives are Easily outperforming all classes atm. I generally advocate buffs over nerfs but I think their roll needs a substantial increase to the CD to bring it back into the realm of reality(assuming you aren’t removing CC break and 2s immunity). Or keep it the same and remove CC break and immunity or some combination of CD adjustment/removal of one effect.

I see your point and agree the initial grind to 306 isn’t terrible. The issue is the lateral grind, generally IF you win you get ONE crate that provides ONE gear piece and from my experience, it’s generally a purple...not at 304/306...so my main contention with the current system is that I’m a paying sub that has no real interest in anything but PvP which many other players share. We should be able to consume the content we enjoy as a viable lateral gearing progression...I mean, imagine if the rolls were flipped...you only care about consuming PvE content but what if you were forced to play PvP to gear so you can be optimal in PvE content...you’d be pissed that you had to play a game mode you don’t enjoy to get the gear necessary to be viable in the content you DO enjoy. With regard to AFKrs, I updated the OP. I think if there was a tutorial setup like the OP suggested and Cross-server Q’s (like most other mmorpgs on the market) this would be a non-issue.

Haha, you’re not alone. Many players feel this way. I believe (although thy haven’t conveyed it to us) the Devs are aware and preparing to deal with it. The Question is Nerf Ops or buff everyone else?

This thread is intended to be an open discussion for PvP. The objective is for the player base to vocalize their thoughts and concerns to help improve PvP. As the discussion progresses, some ideas, thoughts, or suggestions may be added to the OP in an attempt to consolidate information for the Devs. Ideally this thread will provoke an open line of communication between the PvP community and the Devs. Disclaimer; if you are a PvE'r, please refrain from posting useless variations of how we should be ignored as we are paying subscribers too, we deserve the same love/attention as you, and that type of rhetoric isn't conducive to growing a healthy community as a whole. Unranked PvP Q’s are popping all-day-long, clearly there is a strong PvP community, with the following suggestions we could improve Q times even more! (Cross-server Q’s would help DRASTICALLY, WoW, Gw2, and FFXIV have implemented this system, its time to catch up!!) **GEARING;** Getting to 306 is EZ with MM-HM runs but it's the lateral grind that is the main issue. A player should be able to gear consuming the content they enjoy, especially those who Sub. PvP should be just as viable for gearing as PvE. It seems to me that PvP matches last about as long as a MM-Hammer Station speed run. With that in mind, every PvP match should provide **ALL** participants the equivalent amount of gear/loot as a standard MM-Hammer Station run(typically you get 2-3 rows of gear/rewards whereas a WZ crate currently gives you ONE gear piece..). Currently, only HALF the participating players in a PvP match get gear/loot. WHY?!?! Why am I being punished for playing PvP? Imagine changing PvE so that at the end of a Flashpoint or Operation, SURPRISE only HALF the participating players get rewards...Players would be furious. Sure, give the winning team something a little extra but **ALL** participants should get rewards just like ALL participating players do in ALL other in-game content. This is simply a game-balance issue. Obviously win trading should be dealt with by Banning accounts just like in ranked but to avoid AFKrs/Match throwing, we could have the quantity of rewards on match completion Scaled by Objective performance i.e. the more you play the objective of the match(stacking objective points/playing to win) the more rewards you get. Scaling it in this fashion will remove the ability to match throw/afk. If you don't contribute, you don't get rewards. **Ranked PvP;** This is the most toxic community of any PvP game I've ever played. In an attempt to change this, here are my suggestions for minimum requirements before being aloud to Q for ranked PvP; 1. Gear/stat restriction for example; must have iLvl 306, a Tactical, "x" amount of Set bonus gear pieces, all datacrons, "x" amount of augments, and "x" amount of rolled amplifiers, etc. The objective here is to ensure the player has high enough stats to even be competitive in Ranked; HP, DMG bonuses, and DMG mitigation is overwhelmingly higher in Ranked for new players. Getting killed simply because of gear/stats can be mitigated in this manner. 2. Must accumulate "x" amount of wins in 4v4 exhibition matches(I see 4v4 rotating in unranked WZ's so considering this is already in-game, implementation shouldn't be to difficult). This will help the learning curve of new players prior to throwing them into ranked. Lets face it, 8v8 WZ's, with huge maps, and heal/DMG buffs available doesn't prepare you for the small map 4v4 combat of ranked where you can't run and hide or grab a heal/DMG buff. You MUST be self sufficient with your own class/DcD's and the only way to develop this competency is to play 4v4 not 8v8. 3. All 4v4 ranked matches are now restricted by class(this would be much easier to accomplish with Cross-Server-matchmaking for ranked). Each team will have 1 Heal, 1 Tank, and 2 DPS (if not enough Tanks/Heals Q'd), the Algorithm will evaluate the DPS's Q'd based on Ranged/Melee, Cloaking/Non-cloaking, Ability to heal other players or not, etc. The objective of the Algorithm at this point is to continue to seek TEAM-Balance by spreading the DPS class types evenly between both teams to avoid a single team getting stacked in a way that destroys the other i.e. one team has off-heals the other doesn't or one team has all Operatives/Assassins the other team has no stealth's, etc....I believe balancing the teams in this way will reduce the toxicity. I understand the first thought is that it will delay Q times, but my counter argument is that if these changes are implemented, the toxicity of the current ranked community will be reduced resulting in a higher number of players Q'ing for ranked matches. 4. (optional) If we see an adequate rise in the quantity of players Q'ing for ranked, an additional layer of filtering could be beneficial in the form of Solo Q's vs Group Q's (or maybe this is a higher priority? Things to consider). We would tweak the algorithm to group Solo's with Solo's and Groups with Groups. There is a noticeable difference between teams that are grouped/using Voice communications vs Teams that are not. This change could enhance the user experience resulting in higher amounts of players Q'ing for matches vs Rage quitting/not Q'ing. 5. (potentially) If we have the ability to make ALL Q's cross-server, I would love to see Filtering added to PvP Qing options i.e. just like you can filter the list of options for FP's and Ops, we should be able to filter Ranked, Unranked, 4v4, 8v8, objective, arena, huttball. Maybe add a feature that would indicate how active that current Q is with the currently average Q time listed. *NOTE: The "Vote-Kick" system needs to be changed. I see where the utility in being able to vote-kick an afk player, which is good, however, currently it is* ***NOT*** *being used in this capacity. Vote-kick is being used to grief new players to ranked which is ultimately hurting the PvP community. As they are kicked from the match and then penalized further with a Q time restriction and there is no way to contest this mechanic.* 1. Rework the mechanic to allow players to initiate a vote kick for AFK players, however, if the player is able to respond, "are you afk click yes/no" then they can't be kicked(as sometimes they will do this while the player is dead and cannot move). 2. Rework the mechanic to where, after "x" amount of player reports, the reported player is banned from Q'n ranked for "x" amount of time. This would adjust the metric in a way that would make it obvious if the player is getting reported by multiple players in multiple matches vs getting griefed in a single match by one set of teammates resulting in you inability to reQ. Adversely, restrict players ability to report other players or a punishment for to many reports to help diminish griefing of new players. **Tacticals;** Currently, certain classes have an unfair advantage to utilize multiple tacticals via their ability to exit combat, while all other classes are restricted to only being able to use **ONE**. We have two options here; 1. Gear is locked upon entering WZ. Maybe have a confirmation box pop-up, "Are you sure you are ready to enter the WZ with currently equipped gear?" 2. Allow all classes to swap tacticals whenever they want i.e. remove restriction to swap tacticals during combat so that ALL classes can swap Tac's whenever they please. **Huttball;** I F'n love huttball. I wish there was a tutorial for beginners to understand the mechanics because this game mode is hella fun when everyone knows what to do. The tutorial should include; How to position for passing, how to pass, how to position/deal with traps offensively and defensively, basic positioning strategies based on team composition, and an explanation of the resolve system; how to use it to your advantage as a ball carrier and how to be cautious of it when trying to prevent a ball carrier from advancing. The main issue with huttball ATM is the new abilities. The easiest fix would be the following; **ANY** movement ability that cannot be interrupted, slowed, rooted, mezz'd, or stunned should automatically drop the ball upon activation. This would resolve a lot of the current huttball issues with certain classes being able to grab the ball from center and run to the end zone repeatedly without the ability to stop them. Note: The operative is used as any example, this change should apply to all classes. Any non-leaping movement mechanic (i.e. something that moves along the ground) that exploits gaps(literally glitching form one platform to another) or nullifies the traps(the ability to move through them without dieing) should be fixed and either force ball spike to mid or insta-kill like holding the ball for too long. **Class balance;** Based on what I've seen in discussion, changes here should be separate from PvE if possible. This is a tough one, I don't claim to know every classes new abilities(with your help we can add them to the list of things that need balance and how to balance them) and with the changes to tactical swapping I think some other classes will balance out a little more than they currently are but there are some that are glaringly out of balance. For example, the Operatives roll. The Operative roll breaks **ALL** CC's currently in the game, it is un-stunable/un-interuptable/un-slowable/un-rootable/un-mezzable AND grants invincibility during the roll(allowing them to roll through traps in huttball for example) and grants 2s of invincibility after the roll allowing them to cast uninterrupted heals. Furthermore, I've seen them use it to glitch across gaps that only warrior leaps should be able to cross...The kicker, it can be spammed twice AND its on an 8s CD....no other class in the game has this much utility revolving around **ONE** ability let alone on a such a short CD. For comparison, the warriors ability to dash covers roughly the same distance at roughly the same speed as the roll, THE END. Literally this is where the comparison ends. The dash is on a 45s CD and does NOT grant any of the other benefits that the roll does. Personally I prefer underperforming classes get buffed rather than hitting OP classes with the nerf bat. For example, buff the warrior dash ability to be in line with the roll; same CD, same immunities, same CC breaking function, etc.(this is an example of buffing vs nerfing) If instead we are thinking nerf at the very least, the roll should be on a 45s CD per roll(or allow it to be spammed twice as it is now but implement the increased CD 45s-1m). This would begin to bring it in-line with other abilities in the game, it would still be superior in all the ways stated above but reducing the ability to spam it would help a great deal. With the communities help/experience we can expand this section and hopefully establish contact with the Devs responsible for PvP so that we can see the PvP community in SWTOR continue to grow and thrive. I would love to see Ranked PvP expand to 8v8 and huttball!! Imagine competitive EA PvP matches of 4v4, 8v8, and huttball. It would be a blast. Imagine a weekly Dev stream with live Q&A, talking about upcoming changes or changes being considered. Imagine the Devs bringing some of the top PvP players to the studio to help them make changes to PvP that wouldn't effectively break the system but enhance it. ​ Thank you to everyone who has contributed to help the OP grow. =)

The more my crit multiplier goes up, the bigger my crits and the faster I melt ungeared opponents 🤷*♂️ That’s evidence enough for me. Numbers/TTK don’t lie. Go do some testing and find out for yourself.

Even a small tweak to the current system would help a ton i.e. IF upon recalibration, your “currently equipped” amplifier populates as One of the Two new choices....it’s guaranteed to be higher than what you currently have. Frankly, I’d rather see a direct purchase system of some kind but even this could help significantly. Personally, all I want to do is PvP. I’m slightly annoyed that I am forced to grind PvE to get my gear already. further more I’m punished when playing the content I enjoy by not receiving ANY gear when I lose...which is BS, imagine completing PvE content of your choosing and then SURPRISE, only half the participants get gear!! ....all the while my objective is to compete in Ranked PvP but want to be on equal footing with gear/stat advantages...thus the currently EXPENSIVE Amplifier system; In order for me to keep up with the insane RNG of it, I will need to do something like crafting to generate the credits to reroll the AMPS and all i want to do is play PvP.....it’s an extremely annoying setup and as a paying subscriber, it feels like blatant discrimination.

Lightning sorcs seem to be mostly a threat when they are paired with any other class. I agree Ops/Sins are the main issue but I don't everyone getting Nerfed. Instead I'd like to see other classes buffed to be just as viable. I main Mara, and they are NO WHERE near Sins/Ops, they literally dance circles around Maras, stun locking/CC'n them to death. All you have to do is spam your CC and use your new speed abilities and they cant keep up. The ONLY tree you can run in PvP as Mara atm and be competitive is Fury. Carnage is worthless and Anni is "meh" at best. Both the latter trees lack the CC immunity to have any real threat, Anni has Survivability but lacks the burst to actually kill a target. Fury is in a good place, it's just a shame that you're forced to main this tree as a competitive PvP player. All tree's should be viable and competitive if true balance is achieved. This is why we need an open line of communication with the Devs responsible for PvP.

That's why we need an open line of communication, specifically with the Devs responsible for PvP. We don't want nerfs. We want all characters brought into the same realm of viability. We need Balance.

Same here, any luck?

This is something I also believe must be changed. Imagine if the rolls were flipped and the PvE community was forced to PvP to gear OR Consider how the PvE community would feel if only HALF the ppl in the group got drops at the end of the content they just completed(w/e they are doing; FP, Ops, Raid, etc.) they would pissed. It's absurd that as a PvP player, we are forced to do PvE content to efficiently acquire gear and those gear drops are negligible at best when you win, the primary issue being you get NOTHING when you lose. Everyone should be rewarded with gear whether you win or lose. If the Devs wanna provide an additional reward for the winners so be it but the losing team should still get gear for participating in the match. With out players on both teams, there is no match. Nuff said.

1. I have a full set, so yes: I am running a set bonus. I should have clarified that. 2. I have recently discovered this myself after digging through the forumns. Which unfortunately was after I had posted this thread. My mistake. 3. I was leading DPS/Kills for the team...I was the last one alive that round and still dropped an enemy being out numbered before going down. I don't claim to be a God by any stretch, but I'm certainly not a noob. It was a legitimate question that was responded to with toxicity for no reason. Again, it was a Reg WZ not Ranked. 4. Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts.

You have low expectations for the Devs. For a game that you're expected to pay a monthly subscription too; I expect continued improvement. For example, For Honor has weekly live streams. Doing Q&A with the community, inviting some of the best players in the game to their facilities to help test new ideas before game implementation and being receptive to community suggestion and feedback about the direction those balances should go. O ya, and IT'S FREE TO PLAY.... PvP is a part of the game. I'm sick of ppl spamming "its and MMORPG bro, **** PvP, its all about PvE.." if that's your position, good for you. I'm glad you enjoy it, please refrain from putting down those that enjoy other aspects of the game. Personally, PvP is the only thing I care about and I expect as a subscriber to the game that the Devs are going to improve it. That means, any class/tree I choose to play should be viable in the competitive setting of PvP. I enjoy this game and as a competitive player I want to see it grow and get better which means we need to have constructive conversations about it on the forums.