[If you think as a Marauder, Juggernaut or Assassin you get no respect.]

Anyone want to bet the OP is a Vanguard (judging that they accuse imps)?

 

And OP, you might forget that some people have been playing the same classes well over a year now. Yeah, a Marauder in full recruit raises an eyebrow, but it's better than a commando in full recruit raising a laugh.

[I'm announcing my retirement.]

Sage (as well as scoundrel and commando) defenses are balanced around their healing trees. If they were stronger defensively, when they're guarded they'd be invincible as healers.

 

The issue is their DPS trees lack survivability because they're low-priority for receiving guard. So yes, DPS sages need a defensive boost, but they must be very careful not to extend that defensive boost to healers.

[Please re-tune the following..]

I would like you to show me that survivability they have please, enlighten me.

 

Being a medium-range class imbues far more defenses than most people credit it for, but yes, when focused they're quite squishy.

[Please re-tune the following..]

Why do you want all the classes to have a Sentinels defensive cool downs? what sense does that make?

 

No class should be point-and-kill. The more strategy required to kill someone the better. The three heal-ACs are limited defensively because if they had abundant defensive cooldowns while guarded, they'd be immortal. However, since their DPS specs almost never receive guard, their DPS specs are lacking defensively* and that should be addressed.

 

*And offensively, but that's not because of lacking guard, so different discussion.

[Please re-tune the following..]

The funny thing though is that a lot of people seems to have problems with the same classes, which might be interpreted as an imbalance... You're statement sounds a lot like "leave my class as it is, I don't want to give away my advantage"

 

To give you an example, to kill a marauder you have to know about their skills, when to run and when to stun. To kill a sorc the tactics goes like: DPS.

 

And you see the problem being with the marauder. Everyone complains that TTK is too short, and then complains about the one class that doesn't die quickly.

 

A is unlike B, everyone hates B, but most people are unhappy that A is unlike B, so change A to be like B... Wouldn't it make more sense to buff the classes that are severely gimped defensively (sage, commando, operative) rather than gimping a class that is viable only because of it's abundance of defensive cooldowns? I played Sentinel before we got all the shiny toys other than Saber Ward. It was painfully underpowered. There's a reason that those cooldowns are there, if they weren't there, two lightsabers force leaping to you would be looked at like a kill delivery rather than a threat.

[Please make force leap count towards resolve.]

Reference - Today , 04:12 PM | #54 -- Your post 06:10 PM | #56

 

Formatting paragraphs of text, almost two hours; totally legit.

 

They can alter the time they posted something at will. They did it constantly in the beta forums to put dev responses on the first page of a thread. It's certainly possible.

 

As to the thread, putting roots on resolve would help knights/warriors far more than it would hurt them. Be careful what you ask for.

[Ranged pvp dps.. sniper over merc hands down??]

It's not even close. Very similar playstyles, Snipers get the tools needed for that playstyle and Mercs don't.

[Request: Please disable taunts when outside of tank stance.]

Snipers and Marauders get the 20% trauma that's not clearable. It's our version of taunting.

[Hardest class to play?]

LOL? 30+ keybinds used every fight? No, try 10 at most.

 

DPS Assassins easily use more keybindings than a Marauder.

 

Comparable number of keybindings, but Marauders have more, and use them far more often. I don't even understand how someone could say 10 for a Sentinel. I have more than that in my default rotation, without counting any of my situational or defensive abilities.

 

Strike, Zealous, Overload Saber, Slash, Cauterize, Crippling Throw, Zen, Leap, Leg Slash, Force Kick. There's your 10, used in my main rotation. Also in my main rotation are Dispatch, Riposte, Rebuke, Pacify, and Force Stasis. However, joining those in every meaningful fight is Transcendence, Force Camo, Sweep, Resolute, Saber Ward, Awe, GBTF, Valorous Call, Blade Storm, and Inspiration. Of those, only Inspiration, Saber Ward, and Valorous Call won't be used in the fight following it. That's not counting consumables.

 

Now, I could see the average marauder not using Riposte, Inspiration, Blade Storm, Pacify or Valorous Call, and pub stomping a Mercenary won't require Stasis, GBTF, Camo, or Saber Ward, but going south of 20 keybinds means you're either knowingly or unknowingly gimping yourself. Judging by the OP's question, he's not looking at the difficulty of being average on a class.

 

As a Watchman Sentinel, about the only combat ability I get that I don't typically use on a good fight is Cyclone Slash, but even then I probably still use it 5-6 times a warzone (for something other than a focus burn, counting that it'd probably be ~30 times).

[Hardest class to play?]

Dont listen to this guy OP, the class doesnt have any more combat skills to use in a dual then other classes.

And the most you will use in a dusl with a sentinel is 8-15 depending on how good the other player is.

 

Only ability on my main 2 bars I will almost certainly not use in a duel against a very good player is Cyclone Slash (though if it's an op and I miss popping them with sweep, it's not out of the question). On my sidebar I've got Valorous Call, Awe, and Inspiration, the first two are both usuals in a duel, with the last being if I need to make the duel quick. Add in Blade Storm if it need a ranged execute and medpacks/adrenals... Yeah, if the person I'm fighting is actually competent, limiting myself to 8-15 keybinds would mean I'm not competent.

 

 

More keybinds = Hardest to play apparently.

 

I personally find Marauders very easy to play. So what if you have lots of buttons, it just means you have so many useful abilities, compared to other classes who don't.

 

Hardest class to play would probably be Healers, imo. No DPS class in this game is very difficult to play.

 

Possible tanks would be difficult to play effectively, but I cannot say as I don't have one =X

When you've got a lot of medium cooldowns and you have to constantly be making choices about them while in melee range and using the only active resource in the game, that adds far more depth to the class than any other class. Sent/Mara is by far the most intensive micromanagement in the game. Healers are only "hard" when they're unsupported. 1 DPS > 1 Tank and 1 DPS > 1 healer, but tank+healer > 2 DPS. With healing, it really just comes down to whether or not you're being protected by your team. It's not hard based on the individual effort.

 

As for tanking, the depth of the tanking mechanics are really shallow- use taunt on cooldown, save your AOE taunt for when it's needed and stay in range for guard.

[Hardest class to play?]

Most dynamic class is Marauder/Sentinel, by far. 30+ keybinds used every fight on average.

 

Hardest class to compete with is Mercenary, since it's basically bringing a blunt rock to war.

[Officially naming WZ Control Points]

The problem with east and west is not that there is any ambiguity in what is what, but rather the time it takes from seeing a call, looking on the map, then trying to decide what way you are facing, and first then being able to run the right way. The same thought process isn't required when using left&right, because this uses a fixed pov, namely the spawn.

 

Up on the minimap always points north. Your character's direction is the direction of the arrow on the minimap. It doesn't even take a full second to register those two things.

 

If you're in an intense match as a melee, you can get spun around so many times that you need to find a reference point to decipher left/right on Alderaan (typically, Voidstar calls are savable, because if you're involved in a 6v2 as defenders, you're doing it wrong) unless you translate them to east/west first. If I'm chasing down an op healer who is kiting me under the ramps at Alderaan and my only visual reference is a grey floor, grey ramp, a grey pillar, and a curved grey wall, left/right and grass/snow is gibberish compared to east/west.

 

As for a label, they already have them. West is Landing Turret, mid is Control Center Turret, east is Generator Turret. Even if you had everyone calling this, you've still got to translate them into east/west to figure out which is which when your visual queues are lacking.

[Marauders got 89% damage reduction against Death field!]

Most likely you ignored the part where you were taunted.

 

So it was 3500x.7 = 2450. Taunts lower outgoing damage, so it happens first.

 

Then defensive roll kicks in before any mitigations, so 2450 x .7 = 1715.

 

Now you've got 59% mitigation from 10+4+20+25, so 1715 x.41 = 703. Hmm, didn't work.

 

If they're focus spec'd, they take 9% reduced damage at all times but lose the 4% from Juyo. So 1715x.36 = 617. Close enough.

 

Yep. You attacked a Rage Marauder that had multiple cooldowns active and while you were taunted. Here's a hint: You were attacking the wrong target. It's impossible that you weren't taunted and your normal crits are 3500, one of the two is false.

[2 Proposed Merc PvP viability fixes]

So long as the disengage is a straight terrain-based line and not a leap like arc, I don't see how it could be misused.

 

As for the resolve armoring, no. Just no.

 

Power shot also needs to be made an instant for the disengage to be worthwhile. If you get a free 20m, but then sit there casting 1.5s casts when I can run 6m/second, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

Also, cash, Jet boost on a 15s cooldown would be ridiculous and do nothing but make the class a gimmick. It's already by far the best crowd-CC in the game. "Signature" CC moves don't have short cooldowns.

 

As for an interrupt, they should have one on the same lines as Sages (30m, ~12s cooldown).

[No ranked wz solo queue? Really?]

So... since logic seems to have taken the day off in this thread, I'll step in for it.

 

What major game system is completely nullified by a random grouping of 8 players against another random 8 players? The trinity. One team can get a perfectly balanced 2/2/4 or 3/3/2 and the other might be looking at 1/7/0. And now you want a system that has zero ability to see this fundamental imbalance between the teams to apply rating changes at the end of the game, when the game was prohibited from ever being competitive?

 

Solo ranked queue is almost assuredly waiting on a smart matchmaking system, because having a ranked queue's on-paper competition level based on random chance makes about as much sense as a flying monkey throwing a martian leprechaun that has a suitcase full of fortune cookies that all have the exact same numbers on them: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42.

[wow ranked pvp]

Bloodthirst or expertise powerup (powerup hasn't changed, only the adrenal) and then rail shot having 90% armor pen.

 

Vanguards can hit just as hard. Numerically identical in fact.

[Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?]

Interesting.. I was just looking up some pics of the Alderaan Civil War map and it appears the map does flip. It's not only the minimap that flips, but the world map as well. The western turret for the Imps is east for the Reps.

 

It's going to be fun tomorrow night

 

The map does not flip. Couple random videos I just googled:

 

Imps point south when leaving spawn:

 

Reps point north :

[Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?]

The points on the map actually have official names (hover your mouse over the turret icons on the top right of your screen). The turret east is called the Generator site and the one west Crash site.

 

Indeed, but what was the natural way you just described which is which?

[Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?]

Problem with Left, Right, East and West is that the meaning can be confusing when you change sides from republic to imperial.

 

For republic. WEST is the same as LEFT.

For imperials, WEST is the same as RIGHT.

 

If you as a longtime republic player develop a reflex to run to your left everytime west calls for help, then as an imperial you can get confused in the heat of battle, and lose precious seconds getting your bearings. On the other hand, snow and grass are the same from the perspective of both imperials and republic.

 

You do know this is completely illogical, right? Snow/Grass change relative to your spawn the same as east/west....

[The basics of countering the marauder...]

Please explain how an Arsenal Merc is to counter a Marauder/Sentinel?

 

Please explain how to win a fight to the death with a blunt stick against someone with a sword.

 

Arsenal mercs are gimped(as is Pyro, just not as much). Their inadequacies are not imbalances in other classes.

[The basics of countering the marauder...]

What if I don't this imaginary class that has all the CC needed to get through all those abilities (plus of course all the ones not mentioned)? I'm just curious.

 

We've been over this. Gunnery (and for the most part Assault) Commando/Mercenary is underpowered against everyone, not just Marauders.

[The REAL Reason Why Mara/Sents are Overtuned]

I however disagree, i like awe, and sents will never, ever get a hard stun.

Oh, I never expect to get one. Having one would give us too much power as a lockdown. Awe is just very situational, and I find that out of sync with the rest of the sentinel kit because 90% of our abilities are every-fight use, with the 10% changing based on spec (ie watchman doesn't use blade storm much and combat doesn't use slash or cauterize much).

[The REAL Reason Why Mara/Sents are Overtuned]

No, it's not.

You should play another class and look from the outside in. It'll do you good: give you some perspective.

 

I've also had a 50 GS, a 50 Assassin, a 50 Commando (was underpowered when I played it in beta, I can't bring myself to play it now), and 50 Sorcerer, and I've got my Vanguard to 42, but being my 4th round of Trooper I've let it stagnate. Hard stuns are significantly more valuable because they're less situational. I've read every single line of patch notes since I got into early beta, and I know how the changes have impacted the classes. I also know what is effective against my sentinel, and I know how rare it actually is despite it's simplicity.

 

I'd readily trade Awe for Electro Dart, Force Pull, or Concussion Charge. Awe isn't bad, but it's far from great. It works for Guardians, but it's kind of out of sync with the rest of the Sentinel kit.

 

I don't even know what you mean by that. DPS Guardians have to be in the thick of the action, in the face of the opposition, just like tanks and Sentinels. Their survivability should be comparable to Sentinels' (or arguably better as their maximum damage output is lower) but it isn't.

 

Am I supposed to be a disrupter because of Force Push? A skill with a one minute cooldown?

Neither Guardian DPS spec is designed to not constantly have Chilling Scream and your taunts up. The good guardians I've seen have all played the role of crowd clearer. The ones who have tried to be dedicated DPS have failed miserably. If your survivability was comparable to ours, you'd need to give up your taunts while out of Soresu, and that'd make your role pointless. Both Guardian DPS specs, and focus especially are designed to break everyone apart. Push is just there if you have someone being stubborn.

 

Sentinels can't clear the crowd, but have to be in it. Very similar to how tanks want to be in the crowd. Vanguards get to play on the edges of the crowd as well as being able to get their target out of the crowd, DPS Sins/Operatives (both of which I believe have sustainability issues, both energy and durability) are designed to be fringe fighters*, and the ranged classes get, well, range.

 

*Quick thought occured to me here, not worth a new thread. Sin/Op openers (the stealth-locked ones) give a buff where if the target dies within 10s of opening you get put back in stealth. They just currently lack the staying power out of stealth, so quick in/outs would be good for them.

[The REAL Reason Why Mara/Sents are Overtuned]

And DPS Guardians! Yet our defensive cooldowns are nowhere near as powerful as Sentinel/Marauder tools. Vigilance can compensate for some of it with Unremitting, Commanding Awe and Focused Defense; Focus tree has NOTHING. Well, they can use Soresu form. Not that it will be advisable after 1.3.

 

Actually, I specifically left off DPS guardians. DPS guardians are more disrupters, forcing people to keep moving around.

 

 

I understand the difference between a mez and a stun. If you're going to go ROFLSMASH after using a mez, then you've given them free resolve. If not, you've successfully pulled them out of combat for six seconds or you've successfully made them burn their CC break. Win-Win. Either way, I'd much rather have an AOE mez than a single-target hard stun.

A single target non-channeled stun is far superior to an AOE mez.

I have played one in PVP. Plenty. Just like I've played a Guardian and Sorc at 50 PVP. If you think you've got it bad, then you're the one who needs a little more diversity.

I played Sentinel before we had anything more than Saber Ward. I actually know what happens if I don't have them. It's not pretty.

[The REAL Reason Why Mara/Sents are Overtuned]

Awe. Better than any MEZ in the game and matched only by Flash Grenade.

Mez != stun. Especially when it's radius targeted from a melee class meaning the only time it's actually worthwhile is when you're either alone or guiding a ball carrier. Otherwise, it's free resolve for every opponent near you.

 

I still don't buy the whole, "we need shorter CDs (and more of them) than anyone else" rhetoric. Silly greed if you ask me. You have gap closers, you have slows, roots, an AOE mez, and a ton of DPS. Rebuke makes you less squishy than Heavy Armored DPS. You don't need near invulnerability, unbreakable stealth, and a 90% melee/ranged accuracy debuff on such short CDs to be effective.

Play a Sentinel in PvP, then come back and say that again. Grass is always greener on the other side. The only classes with comparable playstyles to ours are tanks, and we have less than half their passive survivability, so we have cooldowns that can boost us to their survivability for short periods.

 

Also, I didn't believe the original nerf to Operatives was needed, and currently believe both their DPS specs to be severely underpowered in value to a warzone team.