The issue with your spec is that you don't have enough abilities to use. Most spec's will give you 2 different abilities. Rage (Force Crush and Obliterate) and Vengeance (Impale and Shatter). As your spec gives only Obliterate, you will find yourself having to use Vicious Slash because everything else is on CD and you have a huge excess of rage. Also, as Smash is your only hard hitting ability (and not that hard without Dark Resonance), you will find it very hard to out DPS anything, whether it be a healer, tank or other DPS. If you are thinking of a rage/vengeance hybrid with free force scream I would probably opt for the following spec. (2/25/12) http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZGr0zkZfMrorhdzM.2 Now you have both Impale and Obliterate and whilst your Smash's wont hit so hard, you have free guaranteed crit Force Screams and Vicious Throws. It will put a lot more pressure on your targets and you still have the benefit of excellent battlefield mobility and rage control. Mind you, a full Vengeance or full Rage spec will still be better in terms of PvP and PvE burst and sustained DPS than either of these hybrid specs but it doesn't make them any less fun to play. My 2c.

As the poster above to me said, without knowing what situation she's trying to tank in,what spec she is, and what she's doing when tanking, it's hard to tell what she is doing wrong. With the most recent buffs to threat generation for tanks in 1.3 it shouldn't be hard to hold threat against any creep or boss. I'll give a few basic pointers though. 1. She should be in Soresu stance. Increases threat generation 100% in addition to improving shield chance and absorb. 2. Taunts bring her threat to 110% of the current highest threat holder whether that be another person or the taunter themselves. If she is outside of melee range, that is 4m, then this increases to 130%. That said, it shouldn't be necessary to taunt spam these days unless it's a boss with a certain fight mechanic or you have epic DPSers who aren't using drop threat moves. 3. Talent Spec. If she's Immortal spec this will help a lot with rage generation. On the other hand, it doesn't matter what spec you are, you should still be able to hold threat, especially since 1.3. I've tanked firebrand in EC HM in a full vengeance DPS spec and didn't have any issues holding threat. Didn't even need to use taunt on cooldown. 4. Ability Rotation/Priority. This depends on what spec she's using as to what abilities are in the rotation/priority list. As Immortal it's easy. Sundering Assault -> Crushing Blow -> Force Scream -> Smash -> Ravage/Backhand/Vicious Slash/Assault/Force Choke/Enrage/etc etc etc. You'll find you have so much rage it won't be hard to use everything on CD and still be spamming Vicious Slash in between because you've run out of things to do. Hybrid is a bit different. You'll be almost always rage starved and it will involve using Sundering Assault on CD and then spamming Assault until you have the rage to use to use Impale or Force Scream. Smash is generally free with Ruin so you should use that on CD. Ravage is also free. I hope that helps, but either way, find out what she's doing, tell us and we'll be able to provide some more specific pointers.

If you have the skills and the gear, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to queue up as a 'tank' when you are a Vengeance spec'd Jugg. I've ran an HM LI and the healer, who regularly runs EC SM and HM, did not have any complaints when I asked him if I was hard to heal. That said, if I'm required to MT or OT either EC SM/HM or EV/KP HM I will respec to a tank spec however for any HM FP I've not had any issue tanking in my DPS spec. This includes HM LI. That also said, I was required to OT in an EC HM mid way through the run when I was in my DPS spec and the healers didn't seem to have any issues keeping me up in the Firebrand/Stormcaller fight. Just threw my tanking gear on and away I went. That was also pre 1.3 changes to SSM and threat buffs. Now if you were to try and tank with a sub par tanking set of gear for a particular FP or Op and you were DPS spec then I'm sure people would be upset. This however also applies if you were to be Immortal spec and had crap tanking gear also. TLDR: If you can do the job, I don't think it matters what spec you are. If you line up for something that you clearly don't have the skill or gear for (regardless of spec) then that's a no no.

As far as I know, only damage, taunts and healing produce threat.

From my understanding, a full Immortal build has a +4% shield chance a +4% internal/elemental damage reduction compared to a hybrid build which has 4% damage reducing on all types of damage (kinetic and force/elemental/internal) Now if you have 'capped' absorb rating at 50%, the shield chance will give you an overall 2% bonus to kinetic damage mitigation. That would mean that IF you have 50% shield absorb, then being full Immortal will benefit from 2% kinetic damage reduction and 4% internal damage reduction. Hybrid will benefit from 4% kinetic and 4% internal damage reduction. If my understanding of how mitigation works, please correct me. Either way, we're dealing in such small numbers, I highly doubt that a healer would care, let alone notice.

You are mistaken =P. Force crit will only increase the amount of damage that you do with force attacks. Sonic Barrier is proc'd by using Force Scream but the damage it absorbs has nothing to do with the amount of damage you do. I believe it is a set amount of damage absorbed which scales up mildly with level and abilities. Overall I've read figures that it absorbs about 800 damage to thereabouts.

Torhead has been updated. Here is a link to my build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGdudMdfzZ0MZcMR.1 It's is virtually exactly the same as Craxim's with the only difference being that I put 1 point into Unyielding instead of Ravager. Really those last few points spent in Dreadnaught, Decimate, Unyielding, Ravager etc come down to personal preference as to where you allocate (e.g. you could put them into Accuracy) them but the 31 points in Immortal, 3 points in SSM and 2 points in Improved SA are a must for hardcore endgame PvE tanking.

Musclemary, I would probably say that the following build is the best PvE Juggernaut Tanking build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGdudMdfzZ0MZcMR.1 The points in Immortal are absolutely necessary as well as the 2 points in Improved Sundering Assault and 3 points in Single Saber Mastery. The final 5 points you can allocate are up to personal preference. I've put 2 into Decimate for that extra AoE damage and threat, 2 points into Dreadnaught for additional damage/threat generation from all physical damage attacks (pretty much 90% of your attacks in an Immortal Build), and I've put the last point in Unyielding for that additional rage generation, even though you'll probably be swimming in rage most of the time anyway. You could put some points in Accuracy if you prefer which would help with consistency of threat generation. Probably the better option if you are optimising your tanking gear to remove all +Accuracy stats. For reference, this is my preferred Vengeance build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZGMZcrrRMhddGk.1 I PvE DPS as well as PvP DPS and this allows me to get the most of my PvE DPS whilst maintaining some flexibility for PvE or OTing if required. Sundering Throw is there for those times where you want to do pure burst damage. It saves you having to use Sundering Assault in order to use your Shatter so you can just Saber Throw and Force Charge in then just use every single one of your highest damage attacks in the shortest possible time. If you wanted to go PURE PvE DPS you would probably drop Deafening Defense and/or Unstoppable to pick up the last point in Accuracy and grab pooled hatred but that's only if you're extremely nitpicky about squeezing every last possible bit of damage out of a build.

It depends. I personally am more DPS than I am tank but I do do both. I have only the PvP Vindicator's set because I mostly run a deep Vengeance build. If I am required to tank in PvE I respec to the build I posted above. I have quite a decent set of PvE tanking gear (Rakata/Columi/BH Implants and ear) that I always carry around with me. With this build it is quite flexible. You can PvP tank whilst doing respectable damage, stance dance to Shien Form if you're not guarding a node or running the huttball and need to take out those targets quickly and you will be able to MT and OT in HM Ops as well as put out some decent DPS in those fights where you're not required to tank. However if you are entering an Op as a DPS position, especially an HM Op, you are still much better off going deep Vengeance and picking up the Vindicator sets. In the end, the build above is definitely more geared towards PvE and PvP tanking rather than DPS. It won't replace the deep Immortal/Vengeance/Rage builds in their respective specialities, but it's a good and definitely viable compromise for if you want to tank and/or spank effectively in both PvE and PvP.

I think that Craxim shouldn't be saying that a hybrid tanking spec is not viable at all but rather that it may no longer be the best PvE tanking spec due to the new changes in 1.3. I would say that it definitely is still viable and I don't see why you wouldn't be able to take a hybrid spec into any PvE environment and still hold your own providing you have the skills and the right gear. The following is my preferred hybrid Immortal/Vengeance build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGzuzZZfMrorhdzM.1 The points distribution is completely unchanged from my 1.2 build and other than the changes to Blade Barricade and Single Saber Master it remains exactly the same. I think that if you are planning on doing both PvE and PvP with the same spec then this is the best hybrid spec. It will give you the best balance of mitigation and damage output possible from a hybrid build as well as great flexibility to play how you want for any given situation. Some people might choose to get Sonic Barrier, but I believe that the passive and active mitigation from Deafening Defense and the guaranteed FS and VT crits from Savagery are necessary for PvP and PvE damage and tanking and a far better alternative to ~800 damage absorption every 12 seconds. Others may swear by Intimidation (free Chilling Scream) for PvP, but I think getting it is too great a comprimise against damage mitigation and damage output from Retaliation. Also, I think that you'll find in both PvE and PvP, you're going to find yourself getting much more benefit from having a 1 rage cost Retaliation vs a free Chilling Scream. Less rage issues, better damage, better threat, better mitigation. Feel free to provide any feedback.

I for one don't think most of these changes were necessary. I know a lot of people were complaining about threat generation, especially AoE generation, but since when did it become a game breaker that required such a significant buff to threat that damage needed to be nerfed in order to balance it? My personal opinion is that we could possibly have used a mild buff to AoE threat generation in the form of a talent in the Immortal tree and also Immortal tree threat could have been increased mildly either by reducing the CD on Crushing Blow or increasing damage output. I've tanked FPs and Ops in all specs from full Immortal, to Immortal/Veng Hybrid, to full Vengeance. AoE threat generation was challenging to say the least, but not a game breaker. Immortal threat generation could have used a mild buff when compared to the other specs but I feel that with this very significant buff to threat generation, it may possibly become a little too easy to tank and hold aggro. The lack of a challenge would make it boring. I hope that's not the case.

The first point of this post is ok, however for the OP, I would refer to my post above it. Accuracy and Surge do not come hand in hand. The combinations for end game Jugg PvE DPS gear are: Accuracy/Power, Accuracy/Crit, Crit/Surge. In regards to capping crit rating at 200. 200 is way too low. 200 crit rating gives you 7.81% crit on top of the base 5% and whatever you get from your strength which unless you have 2000 unbuffed is below 12%. It is important to note that the critical chance bonus and it's associated 'soft cap' for diminishing returns from strength and from Critical Rating are on separate and completely different scales. Refer to the link I posted for calculating crit chance bonuses. This is the direct link. http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/03/calculating-critical-hit-chance/ Lastly, strength is not always better than power. It's situational based on your current strength rating. The point where you decide that enough strength is enough and power is better is up to you. I'm sure there is a way to calculate the exact unbuffed strength level where power becomes the better option for improving DPS over time however it would be based on your surge rating and would vary per player. If I get the chance I will try and work out a rough formula.

Have a look at the following link. It nicely lists out all of the calculations for all attributes and puts it into a nice visual graph. http://www.jedilace.com/category/swtor/ I am a vengeance PvE jugg and by far that is the best spec to choose if you want to do PvE DPS. As for prioritising stats: 1. Accuracy: 100%. 2. Surge Rating: ~250 = ~73-75% Crit Multiplier. This is because as stated, the diminishing returns makes it less worthwhile to further increase surge over another stat. 3. Crit Rating: ~500-700. After this, diminishing returns starts to steepen and you're better off trying to increase strength/power. Depending on your strength your unbuffed crit rating should be around maybe 30-35%. 4. Strength: As far as I know, there is no diminishing returns on your strength rating's contribution to weapon damage bonus and it also helps to improve your critical chance. Whilst there are diminishing returns on its bonus to crit chance it's a very shallow curve, almost linear. 5. Power: This is interchangeable with strength depending on what your current strength stat is. As far as I know, strength improves only your weapon damage bonus by 0.23 per point of power. Strength increases it by 0.2 however by the time you factor in the 6% increase with your vengeance talent and 5% bonus from class buffs, this becomes a 0.2226 bonus. It also increases your crit chance however around 1400-1600 this averages about to about a 0.0056% bonus per strength point.

You don't really have a 'niche' in PvP is a Vengeance spec Juggernaut per say. Your role is and should be extremely broad. There's no single role that you are cornered into playing and the best is to try and play a bit of everything based on what's required in a certain situation. I personally don't generally guard people unless I'm defending a node with a healer or the huttball runner because in PvP DPS gear we're pretty squishy already. Guarding someone who's getting focused and taking their damage will cause you to die very quickly. I choose defend healers by using taunts, intercede, intimidating roar, chilling scream, force choke and force push. Also as a Vengeance spec warrior you'll find you're very good at finishing people off due to near guaranteed Vicious Throw crits. Target people on low HP to finish them off quickly and then go back to what you're doing. Always focus fire healers, interrupting casts using disruption, force charge, force push, force choke, intimidating roar etc. In the end, your goal is not to get max medals or be on the top of damage dealt or protection done etc, it's to play the objective of the warzone. If you play the objective and win you'll get far more valor/commendations than getting top damage/medals and losing. I've finished (and won) games where my end DPS was less than 50k. I had nearly the top medals mind you, but this was a huttball and rather than running around blindly attacking anyone in sight, I ignored enemy players who obviously weren't playing the objective and just scored over and over. Don't think about what you need, but rather what your team needs you to do.

With the upcoming changes in 1.3 you should just spec Vengeance for PvP and get the DPS set lol. However, if you're hell bent on going Immortal for PvP then you should get the tank set. We're not like tankassins where we can tank and do damage at the same time. We have to choose between survivability OR damage and if you're going Immortal then you've already made your choice to go survivability. You're better off committing to that decision and just trying to annoy enemies/guard as much as possible whilst staying alive as long as possible. Don't expect to do any decent or acceptable amount of damage. Especially so once 1.3 comes out. If you go Immortal and pick the DPS gear, all you're going to be is a super squishy flacid noodle holder.