WooduckAUS
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Posts posted by WooduckAUS
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Should have done HM Lost Island back when it was released, now THAT was hard.
^^ This a thousand times.....
It was the start of the end for SWTOR. I thought it was brilliant idea to have something acutally "hard" that didn't require a full ops group to run. You could get together 4 experienced peeps to run through something challenging. It felt like you actually accomplished something when you completed it...... THEN, in came the nerf bat because so many people were crying. Then they nerfed it again because it was still too hard..... Since then, they seem to nerf things until there really isn't any satisfaction in finishing anything.
I read a good post earlier about the balancing act the BW team has. Make it easy enough to keep the masses coming back for more and hard enough to challenge the HC teams. I have no answers on how to find the middle ground but it frustrates me that they keep nerfing and nerfing everything. I don't think everyone should be able to clear ALL content. Top tier content should only be cleared by the top tier players. If you want to join them, L2P properly and join in on the fun/challenge.
With how easy it is to grind reasonable (not BIS) gear with comms, everyone SHOULD be clearing all content. When the NiM DF/DP ops drop, i hope it seperates the casual players from the HC players again. At the moment current content has become a little soft. This is before they nerf it and make it available to all...... again.......
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Got another, after getting rid of the double SA combo. Not using the glitch mainstat relic, bought a BA relic instead.
Myhealintoon - Sage - 3056
TK - 3/36/7
http://www.torparse.com/a/496276/time/1384715509/1384715895/0/Overview
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TBH these days I regret getting rid of my Rakata gear. It would be funny running around in that old bed sheet and fan hat.
I rolled my sage too late, so i never got to see any rakata gear on him but i have thought that too.
Good thing is though, i'm still rocking Tionese/Columi/Rakata gear on my mando and shadow!!
BRING BACK RAKATA!!
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For what its worth... I switched this guy to TK last week after getting sick of Sage heals.
FAR from min max'd, 78 OH and a few 78 mods, rest 72's.
2976 - http://www.torparse.com/a/490381/time/1384221922/1384222230/0/Overview
When i get some real gear, i'll have another go. Just sifting through a few dummy runs trying to work out rotations etc....
Found another parse.
http://www.torparse.com/a/490046/time/1384242800/1384243098/0/Overview
2995 @ 4:58, but i guess that doesn't count.
2981 @ 5:00 :-(
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Dev's said they gona look into pushbacks so let's hope it will get better
I hope they do. I can't see why 1 ranged class is completely unaffected and the other 2 have to compete with it..... If they did fix it, sages/sorcs would be so much fun. Nothing is more frustrating than watching ALL your casts taking 3 steps forward and then 1 step back as you are trying to melt down a boss.....
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Actually Sage has a higher dps scalar than slingers. I'm not sure what spec your slinger is, but if it's sharpshooter then your slinger's boss dps is 3171, and the TK Sage dps is 3165. Not that far now, is it?
This is true and yes my slinger is a SS/hybrid if fight calls for it but what i meant was, during certain phases in most boss mechanics, my sage seems to be effected a lot more by aoe/boss damage/pushback on my cast abilities. Especially if you have to cast MC. Obviously you can re-adjust on the fly but you are still altering your max dps rotation to do so.
Slingers don't have this problem. 1 less thing for them to worry about = easier to achieve max dps on boss fights.
Also, does that scaler take into account the fact that slingers won't need to apply armour debuff in most raids, due to other classes doing so as part of their normal rotation. This would give them an extra GCD every 45s and for a slinger that could be an extra 3-8k damage..... thats and extra 100dps give or take.....
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Yeah, for some reason, Sorc DPS and me isn't working out :-(
Thats a shame. I've got a slinger and have just recently turned my sage healer into a TK dps machine AND AM HAVING A TONNE OF FUN!
Love the playstyle and the animations. Cross between dots, range blasting and proc watching. Its good fun!
4 pc set bonus is very important for sage/sorc dps, much more so than with your sniper/slinger. At a guess, i'd say all 4 pieces is around an extra 200+ dps for the sage/sorc. Had saying that, i know his dps levels will never reach that of the slinger. My slinger is still in 72's + 78 OH, hitting 3100 dps on the dummy. My sage, i took out the 78 amorings and switched them with 69/72's for the set bonus and got an increase. He probably has a few 78 mods with a 78 OH, rest is 72's and he is holding around 2950 on the dummy.
Once you start comparing them in ops, the gap becomes even more obvious becuase of the lack of pushback protection compared to the slinger but that is another story......
Either way, if you enjoy the playstyle of the sage/sorc, stick with it. Once you get it, IMO, its a tonne of fun.
ps. EVERYONE has a slinger/sniper, be different and have some fun!! Both can complete endgame content. Sage just needs a little more effort.
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Talking strictly from a PVE perspective.....
Seer - Buff salvation
I like the sage healing system. I like the way its balanced around salvation. Had saying that, all the current hm/nim mechanics require so much movement and spacing from other players that to make salvation useful is often impossible and more often then not, simply makes the raid groups life harder by forcing an EXTRA mechanic upon the group ON TOP of the boss mechanics...... Now i could possibly look past ALL of the hassle that salvation brings to the group as a whole if it was still GODLY. Now that everyone is sporting 35k min health, up to 40k+ for tanks, a 1300hp crit on salvation, really doesn't do much anymore. Feels kind of lacklustre...... So, IMO i feel that Sages need a salvation buff. Other than that, i feel they are in a good place.
TK - Pushback protection and an execute
I know this has already been stated a million times before, but i'll say it again, pushbacks. Doesn't have to be 100% of the time, maybe attached to a cooldown or something. Something that will help us keep up with top tier dps in pve. Also, some kind of execute as well. Most other classes have 1, so not sure why TK doesn't.
I would like to turn my sage back into a healer but atm, i can't see a reason for it. My mando does the same thing with a lot more versatility. TK is fun, but a few little mechanic tweaks would make it a force to be reckoned with!!
BRING BACK THE SAGES!!
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You can "focus target" any enemy npc. Default setting is Alt F. You may need to move the window around for your liking in interface editor.
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Or even something as simple as an "escape" like both the other healing classes.
I'd like to see a jet pack of sorts, instant 15-30m gap generator in the direction your facing. Relatively low cooldown, something comparable to force speed or scoundrel roll. Would help us with surviving WZ's using LOS, getting to help etc....
Never understood why both other classes have amazing escapes and distracting abilities in wz's but the mando gets little in comparison. If they don't want us to "escape" like the other classes at least give us something OP to the same effect as theirs, like reactive shield and all its buffs on a reduced cooldown to 30-45s.
I don't have a scoundrel but play with lots and understand why they are so amazing in WZ's. My sage with his instant force armor and force speed every 20s makes them amazing in wz's and very hard to kill. Would love something to bring us in line with the other classes. I love healing wz's on my sage but stay away from them on my mando for these reasons.
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well i would be happy with a log from Nim or new hardmode content - because if commandoes are capable of doing more than what is represented on torparse then im definetely willing to look at it.
You still aren't listening to what we are saying..... Showing you a random log from a 1 off pull means absolutely nothing. The only logs you can compare that would be of any use, would be the logs with the other healer in the op you just healed.
Here's the thing, none of my logs have any crazy effective numbers, here's why. I have a competent healer that i am paired with and a group who follow boss mechanics well. Here's what my logs tell me when i compare them with the other healer in my raid, sometimes i outheal with ehps - sometimes he out heals me. More importantly we have a good and even healing relationship and i can guarantee they will never tell you or anyone that they feel they are carrying my healer. Often the response is, you leave me nothing left to heal..... Never have i ever been outhealed consistently, if at all. Of course some fights are better suited to one class or the other thats why you take the average across the whole ops instead of coming to a conclusion off one pull.
Myaltcharacter - 13th http://www.torparse.com/statistics/The Dread Fortress/Nefra, Who Bars the Way
(i was 13th, looks like i was bumped to 16th.)
The one parse i did post online is for 8m hm DF and the only reason i posted it was because my usual partner was not there and i had more healing to do, that my guy got an unusually high EHPS number. This is not a normal occurrence. I guarantee, everyone above me probably has a similar story as to why they got such an abnormally high number. Like i said, i'll see if i can talk my tanks into taking off their gear or telling my other healer to take the night off and i'll solo heal it to get high numbers...... which again mean nothing.
As i've stated previously if i'm paired with my usual healing partner neither of us get above 3k. Normally we both sit around 2600-2700 for the current df/dp hm content. There just isn't enough damage going out to get anything higher and we are both so quick to heal it when it does happen that it really comes down to luck and timing.
The important number is the one that confirms that we are both effectively healing the same amount, not having the highest EHPS. If one healer is higher than the other, then something in the raid might off but it definitely doesn't happen in any raid i've been in, with my commando.
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Feel free to flame all you like. I have been asking around with other healers in the guild who are seeing same results as me.
What server are you on? I'll come heal for you and your guild anytime. If i am consistently out healed over a few ops, EHPS, i will never post another word about commando healers.
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FIGHT: mando (ehps) sage (ehps) scoundrel (ehps) - best setup
dashrode: mando (2941) sage (2955.84) scoundrel (3376.65) - Scoundrel / sage
titan 6: mando (2626.51) sage (2726.68) scoundrel (3996.8) - scoundrel / sage
thrasher: mando (2966.02) sage (3215.3) scoundrel (3690.19) - scoundrel / sage
ops chief: mando(2931.58) sage(3623.45) scoundrel(3317.45) - sage / scoundrel
olok: mando(2093.34) sage(2997.81) scoundrel(2483.28) - sage / scoundrel
cartel wrlds: mando(2991.48) sage(4071.89) scoundrel(3718.97) - sage / scoundrel
styrak: mando(3029.94) sage(3609.3) scoundrel(4146.6) - scoundrel / sage
Now, am i the only one who realises how pointless analyzing EHPS data from torparse in a one off scenario.....? Clearly Songwhistle has no clue. I'm going to let you in on a secret Mr Whistle, listen carefully.
Having your name up on Torparse for having high EHPS means;
1. Your tanks are undergeared and probably shouldn't be in the content in the first place.
2. Your group is garbage and can't get out of the way of boss mechanics and are taking far too much damage.
3. Your second healer fell asleep and/or is really bad. In either case, should not be healing the content.
4. Low number of Mando healers for the sample data, because silly people like you spread so much misinformation.
Don't get me wrong, i love Torparse and use it every time i run ANYTHING. Dps, tank, heal, sm, hm, nim.... Its a good training tool. But for healing, i does not give an accurate representation of what happened during that pull.
I'll see if i can get my tanks to take some gear off this week and get an arbitrary number that doesn't really mean anything.....
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Overall, prejudice against merc/commando healers is just that: prejudice. It doesn't really have any legitimate foundation.
Never have truer words been spoken.
As far as overall output goes, IF everyone is standing still in salvation AND no one moves or IF the scoundrel is doing nothing other than spamming hots of the raid group and not focusing on tanks at all, THEN our (commando) overall hps output is lower than the other 2 healers. This I can agree with. Under these circumstances, your tanks will probably be dead and your raid a wipe and you will have overhealed about 70% of your hps.......
In the real world of HM/NiM raiding, none of this is practical. I've sat in sm ops (with my commando) and spammed my max hps rotation out and tried as best as i could and maintaining above 5k hps is virtually impossible for the entire fight (~8-10mins i believe) given movement and mechanics. Now this was sm, so there was hardly any focused healing and around 80% of it was overheals, it was just me trying to get max hps. The scoundrel in the same instance was holding well over 5500hps holding closer to 6k for majority of the same fight. At the end, i came in around 4600 and he was around 5700.
Fast forward to HM DF and/or DP, with the same healers. Now when the scoundrel has to focus his heals to mechanics and tanks, his HPS drops to ~3-4k with his ehps around 2500-3k. Commando, exactly the same numbers. If all raid mechanics are looked after and tanks have appropriate gear the ehps needed to survive a boss encounter seems to be around ~5k-5.5k. If my scoundrel partner is a bit quicker than me for a particular pull he might be up around 3k+ ehps with me ~2.4. On another pull it may be me around 3k+ with him lower. Just comes down to luck with your timing. If you were paired with a horrible healer who could only manage 1000ehps, that would mean you would need to maintain over 4k ehps. This is why/how you see ehps numbers so high on torparse etc....
25% above in overall HPS is a little inflated but close. If your mando healer is using their character correctly, it won't matter when doing boss fights and watching the important number, which is EHPS. ALL HEALING CLASSES ARE ABLE TO COMPLETE ALL CONTENT
Now that i've defended/explained/defined the perception of mando heals, I do agree with most in here. Worst combination is bringing 2 of any class into an ops. Classes complement each other really well when raiding and ultimately it will be the healers behind the keyboard that will determine your success.
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What it pretty much boils down to is taking a sample 'rotation' (the number of abilities used per period of time in a generic environment) and then slapping on different values of surge/ala to get the best possible HPS (usually measured single target.) Crit was also used but it resulted in lower HPS.
So i've recently rolled a sage and do enjoy following threads on theory crafting and maximizing my characters ability. I've already healed through HM SV and am working towards NiM, which is where threads like these come in handy.
So this caught my eye and i've seen it mentioned a few times through this thread. Now i understand and completely agree with everything i've seen so far for "single target" healing. It makes sense to stack power over crit.
My question is, given we have the best AOE heal of all the healers and will probably make up the most of your healing over the course of a boss fight/raid, is 0 crit rating going to be optimal for salvation and raid healing?
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I've been defending mando's since day 1 but i recently lvl'd a sage to 55 to see what it is all about..... and on my way to 55 my highest wz, i was able to hit 1.4mil. Something i have never even come close to on my mando.......
I stand corrected.... mando output may need more help.
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On a side note, ran tfb hm 16man the other day on my mando and on a few of the boss fights ended up with a sustained hps of over 4k. I think 4400hps was the average on one of the fights.
I haven't ran with any sages or scoundrels who can keep up in 16man, just wondering if they are out there at all? Or is the mando output, out there by itself atm.....?
ok, scratch this.....
I just finished leveling my sage up to 55 and on my way in a pre 55 wz my sage hit 1.4mil heals. Something i would never hit with my mando. Also i healed 16man tfb sm and after the first boss fight finished with an average hps of just under 5000hps. I think either 48 or 4900hps.... have to find the log. Either way..... finding the output a lot higher than that of a mando.
Had saying that though, i find the sage is a "1 trick pony", in that if i can't get the group or the boss mechanics don't allow me to fully utilize my salvation, then i am pretty much pooched!!
So far i prefer the versatility of the mando but the output of the sage is well above what i've ever been able to achieve on my mando.
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Thank you all for the tips, I've learned some very useful stuff here. Now I'm almost 55. I love the new job, I'm still not having a great time on PvP, but seeing some reports here, I guess I must improve my own skills.
PvE is a blast, on the other hand. The only time ever a FP (initially) failed was when a tank couldn't hold the aggro, and a sub-boss owned me first, then the other three. Other than that, I'm having a great time.
Let me ask one question....anything specifically wrong with "overheal"? I stop healing when friedly gets 100%, but is there any other specific I should know?
"Overhealing" refers to continuing to heal after the target has reached 100%. So not necessarily wrong but completely pointless. It would be considered bad if you were to overheal and blow all your cooldowns and ammo leading to a wipe for no reason.
Sometimes i overheal in certain circumstances just to see my healing output as a test for my toons ability. If its not hurting anyone and you're practising for ammo management purposes and max output, i say go for it!! Got to get used to maximising your healing output. Better to try it out when you don't actually need it, so when you do need it, you know what to do!!
Not sure if that answers your question, but i hope it helps.
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I would agree with his statement. In a good voidstar match I'll put up 900k-1 mill in healing, while a sorc/sage, or scoundrel would be doing 1.3 mill or so. Top heals in a wz for our guild is a Sage with 1.8 mill heals. I haven't seen a commando healer do more than 1.3 mill or so in a single wz yet. And the one I saw was our guild leader, who is very good at it. I can consistently put up 900k plus if I am in a full WZ with good guarding and such. But our numbers even at max are lower than an equally skilled Sage/Sorc or Scoundrel. I will say I'm not fully augmented or min/maxed yet though. But I do have full partisan with 4 Conqueror pieces so far.
Thank you for your answer and sorry for hi-jacking the thread....
Just playing devils advocate here... Could the reason we get lower numbers out there because we are targeted first? Knowing that we can't vanish (which also means can't heal), can't trap ourselves in a bubble (also means can't heal), are we targeted first leaving all other healers to roam around healing up a storm? More pressure on us, means more up time healing for other classes. I know this is the case for dps mandos being seen as an easy kill, so ganked everytime you walk on the battle field.
The reason i ask, is that in a PVE environment with the changes in 2.0, my mando can keep up with other healers in an 8 man environment. In 16man, i haven't found a sage or scoundrel that can keep up but that is irrelevant for pvp as it is only 8 per side. So if our output is fairly balanced, what do the sages and scoundrels have that keeps them alive longer and able to put out more heals?
Or in a ranked environment, the whole team steps inside the sages puddle of love and never leaves....? Anything other than voidstar, i can't see this as being a good game plan. Would it be fair to say that in heavy moving/healing pvp matches, that a mando would shine? Is it a case of each healer could bring certain strengths to certain pvp arenas?
Either way, given that pvp is objective based, putting up pretty numbers in voidstar is good for say voidstar.... what about the other pvp matches? Do we have a spot or should we all re roll a sage or scoundrel.....
I find it hard to believe but for me to see for myself, means i'd have to pvp a lot more.....
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I constantly out-heal all other healers in WZs. I break 500K healing easy. When you combine Trauma Probe, Heavy Armour and the fact that we have the best defensive CDs of all the healing classes (Reactive Shield & Adrenaline Rush are phenomenal) I can absorb a huge amount of punishment. My natural survivability usually requires 3 dedicated DPS to bring me down and with a tank actually guarding me, I become close to invulnerable.
I think people mistake the Commando's actual contribution due to how easy it is to get massive numbers by dropping Salvation everywhere.
I agree completely and this is why i ask. The few that i have done, its not very often that i get out healed by another healer (on my team or the other). Obviously, if we get ganked by a solid team who now how to play, i get targeted first hard and fast. Making it impossible to put up amazing numbers in this instance, but i'd be suprised for anyone to do so against a solid team.
I've never played ranked WZ's, so not sure how different it is in there. I assume its just more intense and organised against healers. At the same time, i would have more help from tanks etc as well..... so it would come down to the better team as a whole. I assume.....
I've managed a few 800k+ pvp games and i feel fairly solid. I'm sure there are hardcore pvp'ers from all classes that have done better, but i'd like to hear from the top pvp commando healers to see if they feel they are gimping their team in ranked wz's.
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I have to ask why use aim augments. Main stat with the consular buff and 9% added to main stat from skill points (the most any class gets from skill points) boots bonus healing by .16 per point with a very modest boost to crit. Power boosts bonus healing by .17. Do te math, 6% more benefit to bonus healing from power point stacked which is more than main stat will add to crit.
IMO power adds more to healing, based on math.
If you base it on base healing capacity, then you'll see the power ones sneak in front. I believe the extra crit from the mainstat will put you ahead in the long run. I think the math has been done somewhere and the mainstat augs still come out in front, not by as much pre 2.0 but in front none the less....
On a side note, ran tfb hm 16man the other day on my mando and on a few of the boss fights ended up with a sustained hps of over 4k. I think 4400hps was the average on one of the fights.
I haven't ran with any sages or scoundrels who can keep up in 16man, just wondering if they are out there at all? Or is the mando output, out there by itself atm.....?
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Check their numbers in wzs. They put out on average 30% less than any op or sorc of equal skill. I clearly said PVE is just fine. PVP on the other hand, they are severely lacking and I am not the first person to say it.
What do you consider good numbers for op or sorc in a WZ and what do you see the commando's doing?
I'm not talking "OMG WOW, SOMEONE JUST TOLD ME A STORY OF SOMETHING SOMEBODY ELSE SAW 3 WEEKS AGO...."
What do you personally see as an average in WZ's, that you get this 30% difference from? I don't pvp very often and am curious of these numbers...?
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Yes commandos have a much different method of healing to them, plus the flow of their rotation is so drasicaly different as well. I would generally reccomend less surge since about 100 points of surge in your build are slamming into the DR pretty hard and don't really have much value.
I'm of the same mind as yourself and am not recommending this as the "BiS" build for mandos, just a direction that i'm heading in while still doing more testing. I agree and have seen the DR's on surge and am playing around with alacrity to get a feel for it. I had it up nearly 500 at one stage and have been working it down to get a "feel" for it. Its a work in progress.
As i get more gear, i'll also be testing out crit a little more and see how it feels.
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I'm currently using 250 crit / 360 surge / ~380 alacrity and it feels really solid. Aim ~3100.
I haven't had time to do too much further testing but my gut is telling me to play with 1 more piece of alacrity rather than surge. I'll check that out later.
Also very different way of healing than a smuggler too, so maybe more practice getting used to they way a mando heals compared to the smuggler.
I have a smuggler as my partner in raids and we are pretty even in 8 man, me probably a little in front. When we go 16 man and i can get my kolto on everyone, thats a different story.
Commando Healing Guide, Kit style
in Combat Styles
Posted
I was thinking about what we/you could do with this post to help the same old complaints, most non-mando-believers, have about us and our ammo issues. Personally i never have any ammo issues because i understand completely how important hammer shot is in your rotation. Understanding this and utilizing it to balance your ammo is VERY VERY important.
I had a quick glance over your guide and i think its great the amount of effort you have put into it. Which brings me to my point.... I think it would be very useful if you added an in depth look at hammer shot and using it effectively give you an ammo neutral rotation.
You give short examples of general rules for rotations but i don't see any emphasis on or around HS. A real time boss fight example is more like this....
HS-HS-AMP-MP-HS-KB-HS-HS-MP-HS-BI-KB-HS-HS-AMP-HS-MP-KB-HS-HS-HS-MP-HS-HS-KB-HS-HS-AMP etc.......
Now that is probably not perfect but i think it gives you a fair idea on how important HS is to our rotation. Idea being.....
1. When heavy healing is required, you ALWAYS WANT TO BE CASTING/USING SOMETHING. No idle time allowed.
2. You never want to drop below 60% (i think the cutoff is, can't remember exactly right now)
3. You never want to have full ammo. Casting anything with full ammo, is an ammo lose because you can't regen anything while sitting at full ammo.
4. BI is more used as a tool for maintaining ammo balance than anything else.
I think an extra section focusing on the balance of HS and your ammo regen would be extremely helpful to inexperienced and experienced mando's alike.
Just an idea.