I could somehow agree with the cooldown being raised. However, I'm absolutely against their complete removal. I was also against the removal of usable items in WZs. There's less and less buttons one can press in this game, and it's not going to make it any more insteresting when being further dumbed down. I thought we all agreed at one point with BW when they smartened up the Mercs for example, let's stick to that idea.

It feels like one glitch roller coaster. people "warp" around the map because of "lags" or whatever it is, when a soft-cc puts you into full resolve in a fire, it doesn't give a **** about the fact that it's a soft cc, you eat the full 6 ticks of fire until you're dead from 100% to 0 while being force lifted. Camera unprovokedly spins uncontrollably in certain circumstances. There are situations of massive lag in other warzones, but this huttball is by far the worst. Please look into this.

Nope. Not a single 5k+ crit in there while he was TANK specced. Hope you realised how he constantly mixed up sequences where he actually was tank specced with ones where he clearly went infiltration, check out the attack animations. That being said, it's entirely possible to do a 5k hit as dps specced tank once or twice in your entire life. However, we clearly asked for a situation where you can prove you did that against a decently geared opponent. Critting for 5k+ with tankspec on someone with 1200+ resilience and 25-30% armor is not something that you can easily reproduce, if it's possible at all. This thread is so completely moot one day before a rather harsh nerf of the shadowsin, it's ridiculous. At least wait and see how it'll work out before you continue crying. It's clear all this bullsh*t is coming from someone playing "the other" shadowsin spec - probably less successful than he wished when he switched - and now wants to see it shine by destroying the alternatives. And for gods sake stop the metric crap about how experienced you are. You cannot ever justify it with whatever rank numbers you post, 85 for example is about as low as it can get, and there are enough idiots with rank 97+ running around in my WZs anyway. Your opinion is just another one, of another random guy raging on the forums and it will never be more, no matter how much a fuss you make about yourself.

They're still not viable in anything else other than dps gear, even less after the armor nerf in 1.3. Try a tank specced guardian/jugg in tank gear and see how much more he can take than a shadowsin of the same setup.

Synthweavers, Armormechs and Armstechs will be able to produce the items required to add augment slots in 1.3, NOT Cybertechs and Artificers. My personal opinion is this is this is perfectly fair, because with these changes the respective purposes of the proficiencies remains essentially the same. Three that are able to provide means to make equipment shells of your choice competitive stat wise (adding augment slots). And two to provide mods and everything to fill those shells with. Giving one of those parties the abilities of the other would severly disrupt the balance. If artificers get items from RE'ing stuff on the PTR, it's unintended and will hopefully be fixed.

Modded anything out of it? Seeing as how gear upgrading was handled with 1.2 regarding modding, I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't exchange any piece of custom modded BM gear for WH gear.

Because clearly, having the full set of tier 4 armor ready by the time ranked warzones hit live, the actual MEANS originally designed to acquire said gear, is the goal. The only reason you are able to trade comms 3:1 is so that people with full BM gear don't have their wz comms go to waste because of the 2k cap and nothing to spend them on. By no means it's intended for you to actually grind t4 with them. Wait for rateds to come.

This was actually true before 1.2. Now, the time spent in a warzone only seems to increase the expierence points reward. Whereas the commendation and credits rewards seem much rather dependent on by what margin you actually won. stomping the enemy 6:0 in huttball or 100% to 0% in coast always gives me 100+ comms, while a 3 : 3 in huttball or a 50 to 0 Alderaan only gives around 60 comms, WHETHER you win or lose. This is probably to further discourage the zergfests that quite frequently used to happen pre patch, when one team dominated and stopped just before last door/score.

People need to stop mistaking themselves for "the community". lol

This. Quit whining, whiners.

Hello. I was under the impression that when you swap your tiered (e.g. Battlemaster) armoring into a custom piece of orange gear, the set bonus from the original piece of gear would go with it. (The whole point of orange gear being that you can customize your looks while keeping all the relevant stats). However, although my orange gear now is labeled "Battlemaster's xy", just like the original, the set effect is neither shown on the piece, nor applied to the character (I checked, it's supposed to reduce the CD of an ability, and it doesn't.) Anybody else not happy with this? :/

I used to hate you, but I'm starting to think you got more brains than I credited you for. And I'm starting to think you're right.

For gods sake stop your misinforming ******** and trolling. You're one frustrated and obviously bad pvp player, unable to beat xy-sin in a 1v1 and your only resort seems to be to take it out on them on the forums. People start to recognize this as we speak, and you're losing credibility by the minute. Force shroud provides SOME damage immunity, tech and force damage to be precise. That's only half of the damage going in on a warzone. Damage from fire pits, which the discussion was about here before you deliberately derailed it, is NOT being prevented, because it is neither tech nor force. I'm saying all your hate is misdirected. Guardians and Vanguards will simply be next in line and you'll be crying to nerf them right after the shadows have been hit. Vanguard gets EIGHT seconds of practical cc immunity on a 30 second cooldown timer, you don't seem to have a problem with that... yet. But technically, following your argumentation, they would absolutely have vanguards dropping the ball upon using hydraulic overrides too, and at least one of the guardian's leaps will have the same effect. It's unreasonable how much baseless fear is being spread about 8man ranked shadow teams. They will suck. I know that because We actually regularily play against a team with 3 shadows, while having only one in ours. the 2 sentinels and the sage in our team rip those shadows apart in a way that they either go down in seconds all the time, or have to expend all their cds including force shroud long before they get anywhere close to the enemy line. That is because even a tank specced shadow in dps gear is super squishy in focused assaults. Anyway, we all eventually tire of this debate. Once a dev stated, they have their "own" methods of acquiring data and judging class balance. Let's see if that holds true.

If you're on the top tier platform you cannot lose LoS on someone sprinting below. If you were right behind the guy sprinting away from you on the lower platform, through the fire, you can keep LoS by jumping at all times. LoS is practically pointless for the duration of shroud, whatsoever. I still don't see how you discard my points. A guardian charging someone from 30m range, whether friend or foe, is immune to any form of damage or ccs WHILE charging as well. They can reach about the same distances in about the same situations as a shadow using BOTH force shroud and sprint at the same time, with ONE leap.

you do realise that Force Shroud doesn't affect the damage taken from fire pits at all and thus shadow has no way of "going through fire" without taking considerable damage. The only advantage force shroud gives is that you're immune to ccs for the duration which prevents people from stunning you IN the fire which is strong, but absolutely balanced: Shadow mobility: Force shroud + Force Speed. Guardian: 2 Leaps Vanguard: Charge and Hydraulic override. Two for each class.

Both points are highly arguable. What exactly makes stealth attractive as an ability? Its efficiency greatly depends on what follows after you leave. Leaving combat into stealth isn't breaking the game. coming out of it and practically burst down an unprotected non-tanking class in an instant however is. That's why Ops get another set of adjustment, STILL enabling them to do as described, maybe with the occasional need for 1-2 shots from a ranged team mate. Shadows/Assassins never could burst in this manner and still can't in 1.2, no matter their spec. Ops will be perfectly viable in a 8man setup, they won't get more than 1 spot normally, but then again, no class should. Same goes with assassins, groups that stack them will never outperform more balanced groups. Guardians have more mobility in exchange for damage output and even after the nerf a PT will have more dmg output in dps spec with better offensive utility tools. PT won't be as good in tank spec, but hey, sins totally blow in any spec besides tank, so that seems fair. All the rage aimed at sins pulling off high numbers in TOTALLY UNORGANISED, POORLY MATCHED random warzones, where they can pick their victims easily, without being targeted much themselves, because it's too much of a hassle for a single player in said unorganised team. Hybrid assassins are only able to deal as much damage as they are willing to trade off in survivability, making them easier to focus down. Any well organised rated warzone group will know that and have their sorcs and ops ready, one of each will suffice to burst down any sin in dd gear, no matter what spec, within seconds. I'm really looking forward to rated wzs because I've never seen a game so balanced entering that particular field. I hope the patch hits soon, because obviously people have too much time at their hands worrying in vain. Seriously. All of you stop crying for nerfs, for good. If you consider a class too strong, go roll it. Convince your whole f'king guild to do so, because it must make sense for all eight of you to play fotm. See how much good it will do.

If that shadow had been a sentinel in the exact same setup and situation he'd probably have done over one million damage. The only argument against this prognosis is that the members of the opposing team probably didn't have enough uptime themselves to allow for that. Look at all the Troopers having quite impressive stats themselves. All of them. On the other hand, the Imp team hasn't really achieved anything. This is a perfect example of a very unbalanced match in both setup and obviously player skill and proves absolutely nothing in the context of class balancing. Shadows/assassins will be considered for a single spot in a 8man rated warzone group, but only if they are tank specced. Sadly, this is the only viable spec currently, and as it stands, it is perfectly balanced.

You have absolutely no idea about organized pvp setups, which is all that will matter when rated bgs are being introduced. And whatever your setup will be there, there won't be space for more than 1 shadow. MAXIMUM. They are good generalists, powerful in 1v1 situations, but lose 90% of their utility in group fights to the specialists that practically all the other ACs are. Stacking shadows in a rated bg team is the biggest mistake people can make. That being said, I totally don't mind everyone fotm into them, because it will be easy wins for me.

Gear progression is gear progression, and belongs into one of the quadrillion threads covering that discussion. I don't say it's the fairest of all systems. However, yours is kind of a moot point, because in 1.2 every fresh 50 will have full battlemaster gear in 3 days, and the expertise bonus difference between war hero gear and battlemaster gear will be a whopping 1.73%. ONE POINT SEVENTY THREE. Get over yourselves.

This is most true, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Both gear and additional mods are very easy to obtain in 1.2, there's no excuse for people who don't take that opportunity, and even less excuse for idiots crying about this awesome customization system.

I could go on about how you have the most potent (aoe) CC in the game, more mobility than anyone and so on, in exchange for what you consider our advantages. It's a pointless debate. At least pointless, as long as so many people keep quoting numbers and warzone end statistics and make their world depend on them. Rated warzones are not about them. Having a high uptime where you make a difference in a rated warzone is very important I agree with you there, but a dps shadow certainly won't be at the top there. Because a sin wandering about in stealth waiting for his teammates "to get opened on" is about the most useless person in an entire warzone. GG there. Dps in the midst of fights, doing actual damage. That's uptime, that's what matters (If you're talking from a dps perspective anyway). Focus Guardian may have a shorter life span there even, if what you're saying applies, but hell, he only needs 5 secs to dish out twice the damage a shadow does in 15 seconds anyway. Fair trade off.

I'm sorry, but that's brutal ********. You probably rarely come across a pure dps sin, and therefore it may be hard to really grasp the direness of their situation. Any Shadow/sin outside of Tank stance has 20% damage reduction from armor, no more. Compare that to your 40+% as guardian in no matter what spec, and all your def cds hardly matter. that's a flat 20% more dmg the sin would take, which is an enormous difference.

Alright, but where is the imbalance in there? Sentis/maras also have 45% damage reduction for ~50% of the time they're being attacked, and even throw back some damage while being at it. Nifty little things. On top of that, they have another defensive cd that's very similar to shadow/sins, yet more powerful. And I guess 99% dmg reduction for 5sec is what everyone would take right away, no questions asked. Add the fact that any good sentinel/mara doubles the overall dmg output of the best hybrid sin on your server. Where exactly is the imbalance in there? Hybrid shadows/sins are only considered on the favorable side of 1v1 matchups. These are irrelevant in 8man premade rated wz situations. They have absolutely no overall advantage when looked at placed in a balanced 8 man team, in either tank or dps role, right BECAUSE of their hybrid nature. They can fulfill tank or dps roles, but neither in top efficiency

I think the OP's idea is that even though 31/0/10 as itself is not a hybrid spec (it definitely isn't, by definition), since he's using it combined with a dps gear set, he's playing hybrid. He also seems to think hybrid playing in itself is a bad thing to do, and should be prevented by balancing measures. F'ck knows why. What exactly is the goal of people calling for hybrid spec nerfs? They don't like the playstyles and need the devs to govern everyone into pure specs? That's all it can be. It's complete nonsense to claim that a shadow/sin hybrid spec was overpowered in terms of battleground efficiency/usefulness. Can 8 Tanksins win a battleground over any other group? Certainly not. And in balanced premades, no one wants a tank in dps gear to actually tank your huttball. So basically, this leaves pro people like the op in the gracious situation where they MAY get a spot in an 8man rated group as DPS, but only AFTER all the sentinel/maras, scoundrel/ops, commando/mercs were taken in. Because all these classes do far superior damage in their respective area of expertise and have similar survivability IN GROUP. Basically, going hybrid is the only thing that makes dps oriented shadow/sins viable in rated bgs at the moment, because absolutely nobody wants a light armor dps, with no survivability/utility (force pull) at all. It's only fair, we're allowed to do that, because sentinel/maras still have same or better defensive tools, and even more mobility. The OP is completely wrong about why many shadows/sins play hybrid. not because it's op. On the contrary, in group situations it's upmostly balanced, as other people in this thread have stated, probably the most balanced class of all. The reason is, it's actually fun. A good mix of survivability, utility and decent damage output, other balanced classes have that too, for gods sake. look at marauders, look at scoundrels. Commandos aren't fun, because you spam one button. That gets changed, so they will be able to have more fun, isn't it great? Aren't we allowed to have fun?

Anyone even slightly implying that sentinels are underpowered even pre-1.2 must be a troll by definition, obviously.