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Biscuity

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  1. Is there a name for people who are terrible at analogies? I am the worst at analogies. My analogy I just had in my kitchen was WoW= water+cherry flavoring Rift=coke+cherry flavoring warhammer=sprite+cherry flavoring ect SWTOR= water+grape flavoring god, I really am terrible with them. Anyways like I said people are not comparing the UI and things that have become standard in any mmo. That alone will not upset anyone. Its the blatant, word for word mechanics and abilities ect like the examples I made in my original post that make people go hey wait a second... I dont think anyone really cares MORALLY if something is borrowed or stolen. They just don't want to get ripped off by a game that's eating 15 bucks a month.
  2. Yes, but too many things are no longer "inspired". They are blatantly copy and pasted. I could have made a better and more original talent tree in the time it took me to make my original post with inspiring factors from star wars, lightning, ranged dps ect instead of just copying 95% of it from an elemental shaman. Nothing is fun about doing the exact same thing. You use the word influenced when it comes to SWTOR, and "copy, blatant ripoff" for wow. Its fine if you want to feel like wow is the biggest stolen joke of all time but it added milestones to the genre in a million ways. It created much much more then it could ever have blatantly stolen. However, I feel in the case of swtor, they should have waited to release it until they could provide some more unique things to the game besides basically a pet, and the storyline that lasts a few hours. The game is years old. Why do people still say its stolen from EQ? Can you really log in today and think, god this is just EQ reskinned and these tooltips are the same and these mechanics are exactly the same, blah blah. Or can you play it and think man this is just like a tabletop game. Its an outdated argument. SWTOR plays like wow, but with very few players. Its leveling sytem, pvp warzones, pve content, talent trees, crafting system, traveling, mail, gtm, questing, whatever, FEELS reskinned and forced. It all felt similar in rift and warhammer but there was so much stuff going on it didn't matter. Theres a reason i'm not playing wow.. i'm sick of it, its boring, and I want something different and exciting. I think the problem is they are charging 15 bucks a month, and for serious players they want their moneys worth. I just hope they have the manpower and resources to deliver any original, new, or different anything in the game to distract from the obvious.
  3. Well statements like that can get people confused and angry. SWTOR admits to being inspired by wow. All mmo's are "inspired" by wow. Noone has to be in denial.. they may just not have played enough wow or were bad at it. There are plenty of people who didn't know how to play their class very well or how to spec. But to anyone who was a hardcore min/maxer or raid leader, who knows all the specs for every class and what every role is supposed to do, I would agree that it is pretty blatant. Personally I was hoping for more "inspiration" from star wars galaxies.
  4. So, whenever I see an argument online it seems like a majority of players are unable to have a rational discussion about the similarities of this game and wow. It doesn't take very long for the "trolling" to begin. OMG WOW HAS RIGHT CLICKS AND THIS GAME HAS RIGHT CLICKS AND SO DOES MINESWEEPER THEY ARE ALL THE SAME, ect. How WoW borrowed/stole just as much content or more and ideas and mechanics and everything. When people like myself, at least, make a comment that swtor borrows too heavily from WoW I'm not talking about using a mouse and keyboard similarities, or using bag spaces, or crafting, or pvp or anything like that. Noone cares about those similarities. Thats like comparing first person shooters for all using weapons, in first person. I have (as well as others im sure) played an embarrassing amount of WoW over the years, as well as rift, warhammer, eve online, and other games that probably died too fast for me to remember. Of course they all share/borrow/steal whatever a lot of ideas and mechanics from each other. When warhammer had knockbacks it wasn't long until wow had to add them, which I thought was kind of funny. Anyways, a lot of the arguing is simply opinions, which get very escalated very quickly. I just wanted to make a peaceful post, showing how someone could FEEL like this game borrows too heavily. The worst thing I have seen is the lightning sorc(or sage for rebels) talent tree, as I used to play an elemental shaman for years in WoW. Some of these comparisons you will find in any talent tree in any spec(damage increase, crit increase, spell duration ect) but i added them due to almost identical amounts. COMPARISON: Lightning sorc versus elemental shaman(wow)(current and past talents) (Shaman talent: Lightning sorc talent) [Convection](from wow): Reduces damaging spells mana cost by 10% [Electric Induction]: Reduces the force cost of force attacks/heals by 9% [Concussion]: Increases damage done by lightning bolt, chain lightning, thunderstorm, lava burst, and shock spells by 6% [Convection](yes, this talent is actually sharing the name of the first shaman talent, but this time its for swtor): Increases the damage done by lightning strike, crushing darkness, chain lightning, and thundering blast by 6% [Elemental Reach]: Increases the range of Lightning bolt, Chain Lightning, Fire Nova, and Lava burst spells by 10 yards, and increases the range of shock spells and searing totem by 15 yards. [Lightning Spire]: Increases the maximum range of Lightning strike, Chain lightning, and thundering blast by 5 meters. [Elemental Focus]: After landing a non-periodic critical strike with a Fire, Frost, or Nature damage spell, you enter a Clearcasting state. The clearcasting state reduces the mana cost of your next 2 damage or healing spells by 40% (there is also a talent called feedback, which is Your Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning spells reduce the remaining cooldown on your Elemental Mastery talent by 3 sec.) [Lightning Effusion]: Force attacks that critically hit have a 100% chance to grant Lightning Effusion, reducing the force cost of your next two force abilities by 50%. Additionally reduces the cooldown of Force Speed by 10 seconds. Glyph of flame shock(not a talent, but a glyph from wow, the version before the current changed one now): Increases the duration of flame shock by 50% (or 6 seconds) [Exsanguinate]:Increases the duration of affliction by 6 seconds. [Lightning Overload]: (patch 3.3.5 wotlk) Gives your Lightning bolt and Chain lightning spells a 33% chance to cast a second, similar spell on the same target at no additional cost that causes half damage and no threat. [Forked Lightning]: When you activate Lightning Strike or Chained Lightning, there is a 30% chance the ability will produce a second arc of lightning that strikes the same targets for 30% damage. [Eye of the storm]: (patch 3.3.5 wotlk) Reduces the pushback suffered from damaging attacks while casting Lightning bolt, Chain lightning, Lava burst and hex spells by 70%. [subversion]: Reduces the pushback suffered while activating lightning strike, chain lightning, and thundering blast by 70%. In addition, lightning strike has a 100% chance to increase your force regeneration by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks 3 times. [Lava blast(ability)]: You hurl molten lava at the target, dealing 1395 to 1777 fire damage. If your flame shock is on the target, Lava burst will deal a critical strike. 2 second cast, 30 yard range, 8 second cooldown. [Thundering blast]: Sends a thundering blastwave at a target that deals 841-906 internal damage. Thundering blast automatically critically hits targets affected by your affliction. Cast time 2 seconds, 30m range, 9 second cooldown. Elemental Mastery: cooldown 3 minutes. When activated, your next lightning bolt, chain lightning, or lava burst spell becomes an instant cast spell. In addition, your Fire frost, and nature damage is increased by 15% and you gain 20% spell haste for 15 seconds. Polarity shift: cooldown 2 minutes. Your connection to the force shifts, granting 20% alacrity(haste) for 10 seconds. [Earths grasp]: Grants your Earthbind Totem a 100% chance to root nearby targets for 5 sec when cast. [Electric bindings]: Overload has a 100% chance to bind its targets in electricity, immobilizing them for 5 seconds. Damage dealt after 2 seconds ends the effect prematurely. Earthquake: 2.5 second cast, 35 yard range. You cause the earth at the target location to tremble and break, dealing (325 + $SPN * 0.11) Physical damage every 1 sec to enemies in an 8 yard radius, with a 10% chance of knocking down affected targets. Lasts 10 sec. (it used to be channeled, with a 15 second cooldown, with a 20% chance knockdown, lasting 10 seconds) Force storm: channeled 6 seconds, range 30m. Calls down a Force storm over the target area, dealing 1626 - 1818 energy damage over 6 seconds to all targets within 8 meters. Affected enemies are additionally slowed by 30% for as long as they remain in the area of effect. In addition, standard and weak targets have a 33% chance to be stunned by the storm each second. Chain lightning(wow):30 yd range 2 sec cast 3 sec cooldown. Hurls a lightning bolt at the enemy, dealing 1020 to 1164 Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Each jump reduces the damage by 30%. Affects 3 total targets. (with glyph of chain lightning, increases to 5 total targets, but lowers initial damage by 10%.) Chain lightning(swtor): Cast Time: 3 seconds Cooldown: 6 seconds Range: 30m Delivers an arc of lightning that deals 1085 - 1149 point damage to up to 5 targets within 8 meters. Purge(wow): Purges the enemy target, removing 1 beneficial Magic effect. (it used to remove 2. as of patch 4.0.3 it was nerfed to 1) Purge(swtor): Purges a friendly target of up to 2 negative mental or Force effects. There are more "similarities" but honestly I think this gets the point across. There are very few talents or abilities in swtor that you could not put one from wow right next to and see that it was either inspired from it, very similar, or an exact copy. Now when you scramble them all up and rearrange them among all the classes it can make for some interesting gameplay and combinations. I don't have a problem with that. But when you take all those mechanics, abilities, and talents and basically go "lets take that exact spec and put it here" and play them almost the same. Ok, ok, obviously shaman use totems and get stunlocked upon login so thats different. I mean, if you played an elemental shaman extensively, all you would have to do is look at the talent tree and you would probably start laughing. Anyways, next time you(trolls) find yourself angry at someone because they don't share your opinion on something, it doesn't help to scream STAR WARZ HAD LIGHTNING BFORE WOW WAS INVENTED and ignore literal facts. You can say that the games are completely in every way different and wow is the worst game of all time/stole everything ect. But can you honestly say now that they didn't borrow too heavily in this instance?
  5. My current issues and problems with armstech are very numbers driven. It has little to do with how I think the game should be played, or just opinions in general. So I will try to be as logical about this as possible. There is a TL;DR version below the wall of text. First, I will say the re-engineering system was extremely complicated to understand at first. Not knowing the exact stats on unlearned items(or if it was even possible to obtain a better version) is not exactly helpful. Currently melee weapons and orange weapons will not re-engineer to better versions. I have no idea if this is intentional or a glitch. Overall, after I understood it, I really like the re-engineering "idea" in general but I feel it can be improved. A lot of people are complaining that it is rigged for some people and that "only for them" they cannot obtain the pattern after a hundred or two hundred tries, but that is simply bad luck. I am at 400 armstech, I have worked hard on it and earned a ton of blue and epic patterns. And patterns that start off as blue go to epic, and another higher stat epic. Yes, some of these patterns took me one to five tries. Others took 20-30 on average, but of course there are some I have all but given up on after a few hundred times but I know it is just bad luck. Anyways, the material costs need to be re-adjusted for higher learned patterns. For example, I have a level 19 blue sniper that I learned from a schematic. I re-engineered it 10 or 20 times and got the purple version. It costs 2 purple materials to craft. I then RE'ed it at least 30 times and finally learned the new pattern... it has the exact same damage on it, it only gained a few points in a stat(in this case presence..ugh.. but pretend it was anything else). Now, the main problem is it costs 4 purple materials to craft. So in order for this to even be cost effective to sell (I sell the normal epic 19 at 20k open mod) I would have to price it at double, not including the fact that i'm probably the only person on the server who can make it, so I should be able to charge more, or for the stats. The gun will not sell for such a high price. Simply put, I would see it logical to change the materials cost to the same as the regular epic version... otherwise there is literally no reason to obtain the patterns financially, and the time it would take to earn the money and time wasted back is ridiculous. Or the damage and stats could be increased. It might seem like a silly thing to complain about, but keep in mind that for one gun: A starter gun becomes either crit, redoubt, or overkill. The crit version has 5 versions after that. So does the redoubt and the overkill. So each gun that is RE'able really can be made one of 19 ways. The armstech has no control except for random chance to learn what we want(the only plus being the first random chance is 33%). So what you end up with are multiple completely worthless versions of guns noone will ever want unless its super cheap or free. In a way, I kind of like this, because on my server I sort of have a monopoly at the moment for best guns possible, but its only because I've re'ed so much. To get the level 50 tanking pistol, I had a 33% chance (on a successful discovery.. that is..) to get the redoubt version that I wanted. After I got that, its a 20% chance(once again.. on success) that I will get the veracity version(more shield or defense, dont remember). I earned it eventually, but I'm sure i have 3-4 versions of completely worthless guns to me... defense and crit, defense and presence.. its just not the best and I won't sell them. Once I have the best versions I have absolutely no reason to try to learn the ones I do not have. My first concern would be why these versions even exist. Financially I can understand because it really ups the value of the best versions, but to someone buying a gun they are not going to know how much work it can take to even learn some of them. One argument would be that a certain player class would prefer surge, alacrity, or crit or whatever over a different type of player. The problem is that the players buying every one of my guns is exactly the same. I have no demand for a crit blaster with shield rating on it for merc bh's.. and a tanking bh wouldnt want one either when they each can get their own better versions. My next point of concern is that you go from a gun at say level 50 that is very easy to make(difficult to learn), to a BOP material right away(for a worse gun in most cases). My current highest level tier 6 epic mat using gun uses 2 of the mats. Now the guns are pretty good, they look amazing compared to greens or blues. But once you toss in an orange with the 8 daily barrel it just becomes.. ok. Worse in most cases. Maybe one for an offhand. So what can I do? I have the absolute best version I can make, and I have seen no recipes past level 39. The one thing I can do is work for an open mod. I can make 20 or 30 normals and proc a few, and I sell them for double. But what I'm left with is a massive stockpile of weapons that has a very limited market, and a very limited number of players who can even use it (server populations, while considered "full/heavy" really arent that many people on most of the time.. like 10 on higher planets usually ect). So just using this same gun for example, after earning the best version, I am bottlenecked. First, they have to be level 50. Then, they have to be a bounty hunter. Then, they have to be DPS. Even then, they will probably only use one for an offhand. So the logical thing (and what I do) is you spread your market. I have the 50 dps pistol, tank pistol, dps sniper, dps blaster rifle. Then I drop down into lower tiers.. 37's, 19's, 29's, 9's. But once again, the market is so limited by class type AND the weapon they use that the result is having to learn many, many patterns, crafting a few of each and usually losing money in the process. Now, as for barrels, this is where things start to get a little silly. For epic 49 barrels, they cost 4 epic materials. FOUR! They are usually the limiting factor in my epic gun crafting. So I can either make one level 49 barrel, or two level 50 epic guns. I sell those guns at 100k each, assuming they don't proc an open mod. Anyone willing to pay 200k+ for a barrel?(and you can get a better version in 8 daily quests..). Now at some point I decided I was going to learn every barrel recipe in the game. I got up to the level 31's (rank 13.. learned every blue/epic) before I decided it was a total waste of time. For one, the time sink and material costs were adding up. Two, the material cost to craft them is too high to sell reasonably. And probably the biggest factor was the actual selling of them. The GT is extremely restrictive at 50 items. Ideally (if it were even worth it to make the barrels) I would have 2-5 up of each epic level to make them available for everyone. I would have to make alts just to sell them, and when you factor in the time it takes to relist the items after a piddly 2 day auction max the amount of price checking, collecting mail one at a time and transferring everything one at a time would drive me insane. As luck would have it, there is not a single rank of barrel I am willing to craft and sell because it is throwing money away. Also, they are specific to classes (aim/cunning/ or more end) which at least doubles the amount of annoyance in crafting, learning, and selling. TOO LONG DID NOT READ VERSION/SUMMARY Here are some suggestions I have that would make armstech more viable. Barrels: reduce epic material cost to one and/or significantly improve stats over commendation versions. Make schematics drop in the world and not just off raid bosses ect. It would have been nice to see the schematic sold at daily vendor for 8 commendations rather then the barrel itself, or even a hundred for it. Guns: Make improved weapons that do not require BOP materials. Either increase the difficulty in obtaining the ability to make the weapon(in proportion to how much you can sell it for) or significantly increase the amount of materials required to craft the weapon. (I'm not saying I want people with a bunch of money to just hit 50 and be able to buy the best weapons in the game, but they should be better then what you can buy from a vendor in a day of dailies at least...) Possibly make a version that uses a barrel somehow(but not the other slots, open mod possible yes) to create some synergy with the armstech in general. People either want a gun or a barrel, not both. And barrels are currently not worth even making. It could also open up some customization possiblities. Guns are far too restrictive by class, spec, and level, and are not much better(if at all) then a barrelled orange. Re-engineering: Needs revision. Fix melee weapons not re-engineering into patterns. Consider giving the player more control over which version of a gun will be learned, or at least scrap the versions noone wants. Lower level re-engineering should have a much higher success rate. Medium level should have a moderate/low. After medium it can remain how it is. The reasoning behind this is that it is completely a waste of time and money to go back and learn the lower patterns. A lot of the lower weapons have no damage change from purple tier 2 to purple tier 3, but double the epic mat cost. Open mod weapons: There needs to be a way to make these on command. Either learning the pattern(re-engineering the highest version) or increasing materials cost. I shouldn't have to have 50 epic level 50 guns sitting in my bank because im trying to make modded ones and these dont sell nearly as well. I'm not saying it should be easy to learn how to do it, but it should be possible. I realize this isn't star wars galaxies.. the games not intended to be played where you focus so much on crafting and selling weapons. I don't want the proffession to outscale all the others, and I don't want everyone to just be able to farm up and buy the best weapons in the game. I do feel however that the amount of bottlenecks in the proffesion make it a very painful time and money sink, with 3/4 the available items not worth making, and the 1/4 you can make have a very very specific buyer, who really have no reason to buy the item in the first place.
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