Thank you. That is the best way to describe the mechanics -- tank'n'spank. Perfect. Yes, there are a few minute difference, but that's the gist -- tank'n'spank. That's what I meant -- I don't enjoy that at all

See, I disagree with that. I think MMOs are the perfect place if you know where to look and what to expect. It can be difficult, sure, but if you can find a niche, it's loads of fun. I thoroughly enjoyed the PVP in this game, just got too stale too fast with only the 3 types of matches. Not enough options. For people who like raids though, there are a lot more options and I'm sure there'll be plenty more too; which is great for raid lovers. I was just trying to call out the pvp lovers.

Your telling me it didn't happen because my description is inaccurate....So you know what MY experience was like? This is my opinion of how the raid went, it can't be inaccurate. It's an opinion. It was mayhem with the 2 tanks taking the damage, the DPS classes dealing the damage, and the healers healing. We all died cause the group was apparently not very good, but it was just an oversized group doing the same things a small group does -- I didn't like it, but maybe I'll try it again since I apparently dreamed up the experience. Was I hallucinating all of this? My opinion is that I don't like raids and I was looking for others who shared the same opinion. I wasn't looking for a fight about "raids vs pvp" -- just seeing who shared my views.

Next time I'll add "looking for like minded opinions" or "you thoughts?" or "what do you guys like to do?" -- Sorry I forgot to add instructions.

I have done them. How else could I hate it? I haven't done all of them, but that's what my experience was like for the ones I did do.

I won't be. I plan on coming back later though when they add more content. I'm not a "raid" guy. Raids bore me. I enjoy PVP and single one on one combat with other players -- that's whats fun to me. When they add that, I'll be back. If they ever add player bounty hunting..... I'll never leave again!!!

A lot of people love them and that's cool - to each his own. However, I HATE THEM. The whole idea of a raid is just tank takes damage and taunts again & again, dps classes do damage again & again, healers heal again & again. That's it. There's no curve balls, no real "thinking" involved, it's mindless button clicking to get the awezome lootz..... so you can do it all again and get the awezomer lootz.... to do it again, to get even awesomerer lootz.... and on and on you go. Truthfully, I prefer PVP and the dynamic of taking on a living breathing person who thinks, reacts, and strategizes. Far more fun and entertaining than a robot that is programmed to hit, hit, hit, hit, you didn't beat the timer, RAGE, KILL KILL KILL. Most of the raids end the same way -- with a big pinata, everybody just whacking away until the candy falls out. And this is not a knock to you if you like that, good for you, I'm happy they've included something you can enjoy with your friends for month and months to come. My point, i guess, is that PVP is seriously gimped in this game and you can only play so many rounds of huttball (with the other 2 every now and again) before you just throw your hands in the air and say... BLANK IT. Ilum could have been very cool, and other planets like Ilum -- small regions where it's always PVP mode..... but they made it TOO BIG and too hard to travel to quickly. Well, those are my thoughts.

This sums up my thoughts. Well done!

It had it's ups and downs, no doubt, but utter failure is not what I would use to describe it. Plenty of loyal fans and subscribers and there still would be right now is Lucasarts was a greedy piglit. No attention could be taken about from SWTOR, not even a small amount -- so they canned it. On that note, SWTOR is now bleeding subs like a stuck pig as well. People are leaving in droves soon after 50, does that mean this game is a utter failure too?

Start making this baby!!!!

SWG was anything but a failure. It had its failure moments, sure, but an outright failure -- Most certainly not. Possibly one of the greatest sandbox style MMOs ever made.

Keep it going! More people, more attention to this!

Eve is a great, but super complicated game -- and an excellent example. Like you said, it doesn't appeal the the simplified masses which means fewer $$$$$$$. But, as far as near perfection for sandboxes go, it comes damn close.

Alright, that's awesome. I was betting on the first 2-5 replies being from anti-SWG trolls. Sweet, I'm not alone with these thoughts!

And I agree completely. It's like they forgot that level 50 is the most important part. I enjoyed the ride to 50 like no other MMO before. However, the ride stopped dead a week after 50 after I got my PVP gear.....dead. Its like they forgot about the endgame content; silly raids are not the only endgame content that should be added. They should be there, sure, but not the only part.

That's actually a pretty good point. Gear selection is a bit light... but it beats choosing from 3 choices in the end game, no? Good point though --- they definitely need more gear, clothing, and weapons.

The only thing that will keep ME hooked is a player bounty system. That's it. Nothing else. There are many like me who say the same thing. Player bounties are fun, period. Until then, this will be another MMO to join the dieing legion of overthehill MMOS. It's still better than all the rest by far, but it stills needs work. Fortunately, its still very very very very very young, so it has time.

SWG had a great late game addition (when it was in it's death throes) called the appearance tab. Possibly one of the best things it ever did. You can look however you want to look without sacrificing your armor protections. The appearance tab was that that, clothes you wore for the appearance. This game needs that BADLY. Every class has like 3 different variations and many of them are TERRIBLE. The robot sith, the insect bounty, the chambermaid sorcerer. Come on, these were bad ideas for armor from the get go -- but to be forced to wear them because they are the best is just cruel. I mean while your at it, why not come out with a a pink tuu-tuu that gives 2,000 extra health? /Rant off. Anyways.... The appearance tab would bring some variety into what everyone looks like. No more cookie cutter appearances for every class walking around. Everyone can be unique. I honestly can't see how any one can possibly disagree or have problems with this idea -- but I know that some people will. That said, let me hear your thoughts, be they good or bad.

It would be the greatest MMO ever. Imagine adding the open world, sandbox (truly do what ever you want to do; just like in SWG) environment to SWTOR... not a completely merge mind you (SWG mechanics would NOT take over, so don't even start with that; this is just a point of reference to one of the best sandbox mmos that ever was). But at level 50 -- player planets come into play just like SWG. Same SWTOR dynamic, story, gameplay; everything all the way to 50 as it is right now, but a whole new universe opens up at 50 and beyond.... (think expansions and add-ons several months from now, maybe years) These areas are for the level 50's (end game content).... and it's basically SWG type content -- I won't go into all the details as there are so many aspects of SWG, but fans know what I mean and should get the idea. I'm not asking for SWG -- I'm asking for that open world feel -- because I hit 50 and it's been stale for quite some time. Just raids, same pvp matches again and again, and the more raids. Super stale to me. When you get down to it, this game needs more end game content, and something SWG-ish would be perfect. Again, don't jump on the "this will never be SWG" train and start beating a dead horse -- I know it's now, I know. But to say that this game should never ever ever emulate any single part of that game -- when it truly was a great game (not all the time, definitely not all the time) is idiotic. It had plenty of strong points and those no reason SWTOR can't strip those points and make it their own and improve upon them (like the appearance tab, that was a great idea, i might make a thread about it). The game is 2 months old; and more content is to come, no doubt. I just like to throw "fantasy" ideas out there and see if anyone has the same crazy delusions I have. I'd love to keep coming back, but at this point, I can only bleed from my eyes so long (the raids, the raids, the raids!!!!) before I get tired and turn it off. Think about it. -Jancktor

EVEs bounty hunting system is clearly broken, so that's a bad example. And that's what all PVP games are in mass PVP -- mayham and button smashing. Bounty hunting is the exact opposite of that. It's one on one, who is the best - gear, skills, and tactics matter. In mass PVP, these things don't matter 9 out of 10 times. And hunting is ALL about the thrill! There's no hunting like the hunting of a man..... or in this case, a jedi! And also, you wouldn't rely on others to put bounties on you. That's an option, sure -- but the system would place bounties on you automatically due to various actions. I realize it's not an easy thing; but there are options and ways to make it work. ---- Edit: And yes, I was a big SWG fan. The bounty hunting system was the best and most fun I've ever had in an MMO. Will we get that sort of system or better with TOR? Doubtful, but there's no harm in trying, right?

Before I begin, let me just say If you're a PVE player... play on a PVE server. I don't want to hear your opinion on this matter -- It's PVP Bounty Hunting, so zip it already, this won't affect you. On the other hand, If you're a PVPer and you're against this IDEA...well, I don't know why or how that's even possible, it's like a pig being firmly against eating -- it doesn't make sense but go ahead and share your thoughts on why this could be bad.... anyways..... I'm sure there have been a million threads on this, but I hit 50 1 week ago and im nearing my end point finally -- got the top PVP gear and I've done enough hard modes to make my eyes and fingers bleed. I've already started a Jedi Knight to play around with but that will only last so long... I'm ready to take my Bounty Hunter on the Hunt and track down some marks. Personally, I hate mass PVP, i prefer 1 on 1. Me versus you -- winner take all. That's just me though. I'm already seeing LOTS of complaints about end game content and I'm surprised PVP hunting isn't more of a discussion. A player hunting system is EXCELLENT end game content for ALL PVP players. And I'm not asking for specifics, I'm not asking for it to be uploaded next week, I'm asking that it be seriously considered and added to the game as soon as humanly possible. The games a month old -- I get it -- so I'm not gonna harp on it again and again. I just want someone to come out and say it "A Player Bounty System is Being Worked On, Be Patient!" -- Then I think we can ALL (as bounty hunters) be happy. On the other side of the debate.... why would you NOT want to be hunted? Seriously, you're on a PVP server so you clearly want to PVP.....it makes no sense to be AGAINST this idea in any way shape or form while playing on a PVP server. Alright, those are my thoughts. I apologize for bring this issue up for the 10 millionth time, but I had to....as all the others had to...for my own personal satisfaction and to get the conversation rolling again. Let the discussion begin (talk about the idea -- don't be a troll!)