Most PvE MMOs sure, but there are MMOs that have done PvP and have worked.

That is stretching it and I don't think you understand my view on it, but this isn't really the thread to be going of with 3 long paragraphs about the term "classes." I view it as it being the basic class and the advance ones are merely lock-in choices to further define your characters play-style, others see that as being the same thing as 2 classes because of the things it gives you. It can be seen both ways but there are more "important" things to talk about how TOR is failing/succeeding then just a term that doesn't really effect anyone. I admit I was defending my view a little too much but as I said it doesn't matter what you call it the advance classes are still there even if you call them classes or just another spec tree.

The only two classes that change their gameplay classes drastically via the advance class is the SI/consular and the smuggler/IA because they turn themselves from a long range sniping class to an in-your-face class. There are some differences the other classes had but my main point is you could say that for a game like WoW. I know i keep using that but that's because it's the most popular mmo and easier to use as an example. You may say "No their completely different!" Well for the last 2 examples you gave it actually could easily be done with the warrior class. You could spec in fury and be a berserker type guy or be a protection spec and be a brick wall while relying on teammates for support. The others could be done with how a druid can be feral and have completely different play-style than a restoration, yet people don't say the druid is really 2 classes or anything like that. Sure they may ask for a resto or feral druid, but no one will say that it makes them an actually different class because it's just how you spec him that determines how you want to play. I look at the advance classes as focusing on a specific aspect of a class and being able to further fine-tune it via the talents given not as an entirely different class. The point is justifying it as a completely different class is ridiculous because despite them being better suited for a certain type of gameplay they are still using similar abilities and still feel like a trooper or consular or whatever you're playing as. Also saying they aren't the same because the operative is OP compared to the sniper is rubbish. I know the operative is op (or was, not sure how it is atm) but, using WoW as an example again, the shadow priest may be overpowered in PvP but it's still a priest, it's just that specific tree is unbalanced. It doesn't make it all of a sudden an extra class and no where does anyone with sense say it is. Even the devs themselves don't say they have 8 unique classes, they say they have 8(4 because of mirror) classes and 16(8 because of mirror) advance classes. I don't disagree that they play differently, in some cases pretty significantly, but the overall class is still there. Maybe I'm just a moron without any intelligence what-so-ever, but from my experience with other games that have classes with "talent-trees" of sorts it is no different than that. That is all I'm trying to get at and if it's been read as otherwise than either there is a lack of reading comprehension or I just failed to type out what I meant in accurate sentences. I don't even think you even understood what I was getting at re-reading your post, but such is the internet.

Ops my bad. It's hard to figure out how someone is saying someone when it's only text and there is no emotion in what someone types.

At least you stick with what you say without apologizing to avoid getting people mad at you for your opinion. Though I have to agree that some people could be called "morons" when they say stuff like that, I tend to call them "fanboys" in most cases.

1: Ah ok thank you for that. 2: Whoops brain farted. Yeah the consular and the SI have a mana type system, but the JK and SW's system is pretty much just a warrior in WoW with a rage meter being replaced with focus. You could say that you get focus from your abilities and that's new, but you have to remember this game doesn't have an auto-attack like WoW does so those abilities make up for that. Also I don't count the first ability you get as an "auto-attack", it's really just a last-resort/I-don't-wanna-waste-energy-for-this-one-guy type of thing. Also I have a lvl 34 or something sentinel as well and like I said I just derped, no need for sarcastic remarks like that. *edit* before you say "but the first ability for a JK IS a focus builder!" it is, but WoW also had some other ways of getting it more quickly from talents and the like. I haven't played WoW in quite some time but from my knowledge that's how it was.

I will say that the trooper/BH do have a interesting resource system that I haven't really seen in a game. The Smuggler/IA is pretty much a WoW rogue with the previous mechanic mixed in there. Why you brought up the focus/force is beyond me because it's just a mana system from what I've seen and doesn't really have anything amazingly different about it. On a side note can you post/point out where he called people "morons"? I haven't found that and would like to know where it is if it even exists.

a: Other mmos have them, they call them "pets." While I do like how they do have their own personalities and you can have convos with them, in a strictly gameplay sense they are "pets." b: It's not new at all really. Sure it's new for MMOs to have it, but it was taken from a gamemode I first found in something called "UT2004." So yes it hasn't really been "MMOfied" before, but it's not new concept. c: I agree with you here. d: What do you mean by" offtime"? I know that CoH/V had a "Dayjob" system that happened in offline mode that gave you different benefits, but unless you're talking about being able to craft things while offline (which was point c) I don't really see what this is talking about. On a side note: besides the word "troll" being thrown around (by me as well) the insults have been whether low. I suppose that's a plus for this thread.

Actually that is purely opinionated and is neither true nor false. Some people feel that if your character doesn't talk or you don't choose any personalized chat options for quests that they feel like they are just a soulless character. However others feel that they can get into their character just because of how they made him/her look and how the class plays. Some even get into their characters by making their own backstory and roleplaying with others. Sure in the gameworld you're just another mage or thief, but then again in TOR you're just another sith or trooper along with thousands of others. I would even say TOR limits your "uniqueness" by making everyone have the same story as everyone else with, in most cases, slight differences. Unless of course you're a sith that picked every single good option which would make you the minority on that side, but there are still a bunch of others who've no doubt done the same (even then there are only slight differences in the story). In other MMOs you can choose where to level (though only from a handful of zones) and be able to define your character that way. I personally got into my gnome mage in WoW but maybe that's just me.

You do know there technically are just 4 "classes" right? Those other things you are listing are advance classes, it is part of the talent tree and not an actual "class". The advance class "fine-tunes" your class to how you want him to play like and then you use the usual spec tree from other MMOs from there. You will still get like around 50% if not more of your abilities being the same and some of them are gonna be more or less useful based on how you spec just like other MMOs. A feral druid will play differently from a resto druid, and shadow priest will play differently from a holy priest. Also people who say "I stopped reading at --" is becoming really annoying. I understand if what the person said was a sign of obvious trolling but it wasn't. Either you're not open-minded at all and refuse to see if any of his points have merit, or you are a troll. *EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST* Niil Yet if he didn't say that people would presume he didn't like the game because he was jaded by other mmos. People who are valiantly defending a game will use these tactics to disclaim everything a person says because it is not favorable towards said game. I don't mind if people like that game, but at the same time I've leveled up 2 people to 50 and have 2 lvl 30s + other low level alts and I've noticed several flaws of the game. I will agree that someone that doesn't like FPS games and doing a review of how he doesn't like a new one that he just tried is in most cases makes it a very unbalanced review. However if one becomes jaded with the same type of genre but really wants a game in that genre to revolutionize it to make it something new and fresh, but the game he THOUGHT was gonna do it didn't even if the company who made it claimed it would, then it is completely justified. I for one have enjoyed my days in WoW and played some EQ1 before that including some other short-lived mmo subs, but that doesn't mean I hate the MMO genre as a whole, I just want these games to actually do something that is not part of the same formula and gives us something completely different. Anyways that's my rant/edited rant. Good day.