Pretty much true. But Dps is easy, its basically the easiest mechanic in the game. And your even given a dummy to practice over and over on. So when there is less damage going out, less people to look out for, less collateral damage, the fight mechanics are easier and you can focus on DPS which is not hard to begin with... where is the challenge, where is the precision. Again this thread was created to show that EA has changed a fight to a particular strat on Thrasher. And that strat required God Mode dps in 72 gear, but is easier now in 75 gear so people are calling it cheese. So be it. Some would say that rolling into TFB 16M with 75 gear, 2 months after release, brandishing them world first titles on post nerf fights, is total cheese. I wouldn't say that. I would say .....Welcome to the Majors mother****** 8M - alt mode 16M - champ mode Some things will never change.

Welcome back to the big leagues

I have nothing but respect for DnT guys. Even when you had to go through that whole 8man ordeal on tfb, it happened and you trucked along. I'm sure with your leadership, if you had the opportunity, you would rather take on the 16m than the 8m. The whole precision thing really makes no sense after a certain point. I caught a stream of DnT a couple of weeks ago, and you had many 8m attempts on TFB with a dps down for two tenticles phases in phase 2 and still was able to almost squeak it out. But you make it seem like, as soon as anyone dies in 8m its game over, when clearly its not. Once you have competent dps, its not an issue anymore. It has not been an issue where omg, we only have dps that can do 2900 and we need 3100. Dps is the easiest thing to do in the game, so once you have competent dps, it comes down to mechanics and coordination. This whole precision thing sounds like a made up conjecture to prop up a certain point of view. instead I would expect people to step up and think outside the box Or more to the point, once you have good enough dps to be precise, the real challenge kicks in 16, where it is lacking 8m.

for anyone outside of these banters reading this, realize that never , ever, EVER, will you see an 8man group say "hey, lets jump this to 16man to clear this easy mode". But what you will see, and we have witnessed, is 16man groups say , "we are dropping this to 8man to clear this and get loot" after a night of wiping near the end of the weekly reset. There is a reason for this. the ultimate challenge is at 16man. What you will see is people not looking to step up or take on the challenge to prop themselves up to the same level. This of course is obvious and only makes them look tired post after post. winning the little league world series DOES NOT EQUAL winning the world series.

This thread has delivered!

The SG strat has only become cheesy because 75 gearing has made it easier. You are forcing a hard engrage on yourself and racing against imminent death.....not something you would definitely want to choose to do. In 72 gear, you needed some of the best dps in the world to handle this, evident by the fact that only several 16m teams have cleared this fight.

Thin, You should read through some of the forum posts, from what I read the fights have been nerfed for whatever thats worth.

Grats dude. I haven't played in a while and didn't know DnT was fielding a 16m again. But its good to hear that you guys stepped up instead of festering in the minor leagues of 8m.

Caught part of their stream, they seemed have their act together and would have taken it down even with out the red reticule fix. Getting to the 3 sniper pack, while a pain, was not really the block in this fight so this bug fix is a minor nerf. What is interesting is now the kills on Thrasher involve "dps racing" the sniper packs instead of taken out the adds, which makes me wonder how the fight was "intended" to be done.

Kano...............Liu Kang...............Braeden...............Johnny Cage............

Congrats on the Kill. Take pride in accomplishing this before the expansion. On Nightmare you cannot "outgear" it. it requires much attention and motivation. Well deserved.

If you follow the ranking thread for 16M here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553172 you will see POTF has 4 guilds competing and able to clear 16 EC Nim Two on Republic and Two on Empire. There may be other guilds listed as above that may be clearing content but not posting results. If your looking for advice for a character to roll, it may be wise to roll someone that could run in multiple roles. Vanguard dps/tank, Commando dps/heal, Sage heal/dps (especially after 2.0).... obviously i play pub side. Guess you couldn't go wrong with dps or heal, as most 16M will have their tanks situated. Good Luck. Prophecy does have some decent end game raiding guilds, and some of the best pvp to go along with it.

It should be implemented that we can personalize our scrambling field especially now that you don't need to be stuck in cover to deploy it. I think having unique colors , banners, items in the "bubble" would be nice to differentiate from other gunslingers and snipers in the raid. -Braedenz

That was my Torparse with the 4300 dps. Yes it was on Fabricator in Karagga's Palace on story mode as I was in a random group finder for a weekly BH comms run. Every time I am in such a run, I have to run the puzzle due to the lack of pug talent to solve the puzzle. I managed to find a group that could run it, and having a guild member post a +4000 dps on such a fight, i tried to dps as best I could. I got a little overzealous plus poor puzzle solving but ended up with 4300ish dps. The key is to know your fight, know your rotation. Gear does not make the player. I would rather take an undergeared alt of a quality player than someone who has gear by being carried by their raid. Also ignore many Overall on torparse, check specific fights, only look at kill shots, try and find where not just the top class dps is, but where several others are in comparison.

When I was SS, i used to use Vital shot with some sort of relic/adrenal. Mainly, XSFF + Vital Shot + adrenal, then into rotation. This way it would get the benefit of the +power while maintaining a standard rotation afterwards. Basically your stacking damage that benefits from the relic/adrenal. it can be used situationally depending on the fight, but for the most part, you do not want it part of your rotation unless you can gain from it like above or on the move.

oh and btw, how do you get askmrrobot to show your parse in seconds, mine always show up at .9 hours.

Nice bump on the post. Impressed by your numbers without the adrenal Wlliam. 596K over 5min It has been awhile since my last round of parsing numbers on ops dummy. Full BiS now and in DF spec listed in sig, I was pulling 585K fairly consistently which is good for a 1950ish dps. (with adrenal). Tried once without adrenal and actually messed up from the queue ability but pulled a 540K. These are all 5min parses. So i switched to the sab/df spec which I have known about but just never bothered with. Attemped about 10 parses and must say that it seems vastly different. I tried following your rotation, and it works well one run through with cool head, the 2nd run starts running into energy issues, and by the third i have to drop SS and just flurry. I see what you mean by getting in sab nade before the wounding shots, as they both come up of CD at the same time. So I started 3 the dots, wait on the sab (like 1 second) then pound with wounding shots. Interesingly on my first real attempt, i pulled a 583K WIITHOUT adrenal. almost higher than the DF I was pulling with adrenal. Second attempt was 540K, third attempt was 580K. Figured I would give it shot with the adrenal, and thought it was my best attempt, and it only came out to 560K, very confused/disappointed. Not going to go much about the numbers since I only have tried the spec for an hour. What I have noticed with the sab/df spec is the wide variance of numbers I was getting. This may be due to not knowing the rotation inside and out. but nonetheless, it appears to have a higher ceiling, but also drops off quicker too if you mess up. More importanly about the rotation, I feel the sab/df has huge energy swings. I was easily dropping to the lower 20% range of energy and popping back up to 80% energy in a short time. The three dots alone, are 20 energy each, then sab charge, then wounding shots, then the energy comes storming back. But the following rotations is where i find to have trouble when there is no cool head/illegal mods, and sab charge is on cd. The energy regen just isnt there to cover the cost of the 3 dots. Compared to the full DF, energy always seems to be above the 50% mark. 2 dots at 20 energy, free Hemm shot, then wounding and your constantly in the above 60% high energy regen. allows for burst and recover with cool head. But i cannot deny that without adrenal i topped what i was doing with DF. So I will keep at it, and from here on i will always be using the rakata stim and the rakata adrenal. It too confusing to compare numbers without them since anyone that is legit is either using biochem or using exotech so parse with them and stop complaining in my opinion. 586K over 5min with adrenal, full DF http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/146fb830-b7a3-4e84-99ec-4d77260774dc/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1 583K first attempt with sab/df no adrenal http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d427b4b3-9331-4afe-9805-b10417717b98/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1 580K third attempt with sab/df no adrenal http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/dc357694-dc73-490b-af16-6edafa482417/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1 I cant seem to keep up with the number of Speed Shots, even with my spec i have 41% crit, and 20 less power. Thanks for the info.

I always wait to be out of combat, close the combat logging, then upload the file. There is some additional time waiting to get out of combat thought usually not 24 seconds, more along the line of 8-10s. Again i try to end with no DoTs applied but the numbers may be padded by "Nice Try" but the effects are slight, maybe 1K damage at best. Using the adrenal twice would definitely increase your dps by atleast 100 over a 5min fight.

Spec/Gear : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/1f759a6a-c43e-4221-8803-f783f6a6ef46 1850 DPS: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/b701e043-4cd9-4970-87df-31b9abf92b05/overview#d=0,t=1,b=1 1875 DPS: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d913f4f3-9124-4ea6-8699-9ad6fde721e0/overview#d=0,t=1,b=1 I use a somewhat crude method by starting 5min timer on my cell phone, dps the ops dummy, then stop when timer goes off. Take the total damage and divide by 300 seconds. (try my best to end with no dots up). this method works best to counter the ops dummy out of combat glitchyness, though that doesn't seem to happen anymore with DF and constant DoTs. Rotation: Start with heavy burst XS Freighter Flyb - Shrap Bomb - Vital shot - Illegal Mods - Power Adrenal - Hemorrhaging Blast - Wounding Shots - Sabotage Charge - Cool Head - Speed Shot - Wounding Shots - Aimed Shot Fall into a sustaining rotation Shrap Bomb - Vital Shot - Hemorrhaging Blast - Wounding Shots - Speed Shot - filler - Wounding Shots - filler for fillers, use flurry of botls to conserve energy, or sabo charge/aimed shot/ charged burst / XSFF for higher dps. There definitely seems to be much more of a variety in rotations with DF compared to a very static rotation in Sharpshooter. Sometimes, I go for a third Wounding Shot based if I'm near the end of a burn phase / dmg boost instead of simply restarting after the 2nd Wounding shot.

gotcha. Yeah i use Champion gear for the 2 piece bonus with BH armorings. I get a blood red look, and unify colors.

Tibbel has the best write up http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-953.html Speed Shot - Aimed Shot - Trickshot - filler - Charged Burst - Trickshot That is the standard sharpshooter rotation. its a bit fast, meaning that when you repeat you may be waiting on aimed shot for about 1/3rd of a second. So sometimes i throw in a Flurry of bolts at the end of the rotation. But this is by no means an end-all to this rotation. You need to keep flourish shot up as most of the damage is white dmg. The filler can be Flurry of bolts (to conserve energy), xs freighter flyby, sabotage charge, vital shot, or another charged burst. Probably in that order minus the flurry. so vital shot is not entirely necessary on paper alone. Though, with fights with movement, vital shot is an easy shot to get off on the move and keep the dps up. i.e. red circle phase on Toth/Zorn Also, the sharpshooter heavy burst involves XS freighter flyby, Vital Shot, illegal mods and rakata adrenal, then into the rotation. you want both of your DoTs affected by IM and adrenal plus the rotation damage. its heavy on energy, so hopefully Cool Head can bring your energy back up. I used the pvp 2 piece bonus to get an extra tick on XS Freighter Flyby. check the link, lots of good info. hope this helps. GL

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/9ca44327-a7ef-4398-aed1-5a0a8e8d9260 here is sniper BiS created by someone My sig link is pretty close to BiS for sharpshooter. only missing my chest 61 armoring. My acc is at 101% which is a tad high, but my surge is already high enough that adding more does very little. Yes get acc to 100% (which is an accuracy rating of 181 with the sharpshooter talents) Get a surge rating of 300 (roughly 76%), any more is barely noticeable. crit you can fool around with, i run with 41% crit which helps with procs. Running the sims show a slight gain by reducing crit with power. probably a sweet spot around 38% crit.

Been MM since January. Im full Campaing/BH. On an ops dummy over 5min, my best dps was 1715 using full MM. just switch to DF last night and hit 1875 dps on second attempt. Can't wait to try it in raid tonight.

my signature has link to my character setup. Test with all class buffs, rakata stim, and use rakata adrenal. Total cunning is at 2289 fully buffed. still a few components away from completely BIS I firmly believe energy management is key to DPS. Very rusty attempts I was getting only 1500 DPS over 5min.

I find SoS to be slightly higher than FT on long sustained damage fights. In fights with quick movement, FT is usually higher as i rely more on the snipe-FT part of the rotation than setting up for Sos-ambush-ft Here is a log on combat dummy - 1714 dps over 5 minutes. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/1c23fdbb-2665-4f73-a793-1ac2029546f3/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1 I think in a perfect rotation, they would come out equal