First: english is not my native speaking, so bear with me I was a hardcore raider (server first Onyxia for example on one of the starting servers) as well as as hardcore pvp player (horde first warlord on my server as well as part of the best horde 5-men Arenateam in season one). Just to make clear where I am coming from. You know when I did have the most fun in pvp? When WoW did not have anything made out of it. best moments where (really) when we were fighting in Tarrens Mill (I admit, it was a big zergfest, but as a stealther you you could pick your weakened targets behind it and try to get back without dying) and during leveling. Why? Because it was purely for fun. I won´t speak of the old pvp-system (because no sane man will call that good) but of the arenas instead: I played with "friends" (at least what some of you would call friends in such a gaming environment). It was not good at all. There were different point of views the way we should target for the pvp-part. We got much drama out of it just because now there were rating and those ratings meant progression. It was not fun anymore. And once WoW started to also introduce rating requirements on parts of the gear the whole thing became worth - Most of the others simply stopped because of that. I did it anyway, but it was not about friends, and not about fun, but about who would be as good as me and that´s all. I did not play with a friend, or with my girl-friend for example (which is simply not as good as me), because I knew of the drama when we started in Arena with my group of people i was already playing with and had fun before. IMHO there were 2 MMOs which got the pvp right in its own way: DAOC because of the massive 3 vs. 3 where you could still fell as you contribute even you could not (the CC in that game and the buff-bots are a whole different story). GW because competitive PvP was not made of gear but who was better (even I do not enjoy that as much I see the demand of it, but even playing field is a must). I know if SWTOR will bring rated WZs and they will be the only way to get the best gear to PvP I will cancel and take a look at secret world and GW2. Of course some of you do have a different opinion - that´s ok. But remember all of you: Different opinion does not mean it is not true. There are more way to play (and enjoy) an MMORPG than yours or mine. Anyway: BW should remember it´s own design decisions from years ago when creating SWTOR: People are not as hardcore as they think!

Play with/against each other. Interact is something different. I like to have people around me in the game world, but I do not want to be forced to group. BTW most drama I have seen in WoW was by Arena and Rated BGs. Not everyone wants to play the same way as you - but my playstyle is as true as yours. Xou do not get the point. There are different multiplayer playstyles. Not just yours. I guess we both do have different point of views if we call someone a friend...

This! Qft! And to all speaking of patch 1.2: Nobody in these forums does know anything about patch 1.2 beside the dev have said it will bring rated WZ (no word about the real implementation most people just think of the wow rated BGs) and they do think it will become easier (which I am unable to see if the implementation will be the same as in WoW - the bottom players would have a harder ride - IMHO). So both sides, those who call the skies falling and those who say all will be fine just pull it out of nowhere. But that is really BWs fault. They should have told us more about the system they want to implement. The QQ is because of the lack of info or at least right now (of course the info could also bring QQ, but at least that would be because of known facts). I wish the devs would habe more faith in telling us about the future (even I do know some would speak of broken promises once things wouldn´t be the same the devs have said they hoped it could be implemented but also said things could change).

If this happen I will quit and play Secret World and Guild Wars 2 for sure. Regardless of the SW IP.

Ah - thought of shock charge as the third (hybrid build).

You should read the post before answering - he speaks of the CT Dot grenade as fourth Dot. Anyway, I do believe just bleed-effect-dots are those you really need using DF.

I am a little bit afraid of the mentioned rated warzones. Will rated warzones provide better gear (which I would not like to see because it would force to group) or just make it faster to get it (by getting more points for example)?

He just made an example to show how bad the need for cover is. As most (all?) other classes also do have other CC (stun) the point to flash grenade or dirty kick is beside the point. I have played a Sage as much as a Gunslinger, and I can tell you, the Sage feels much more fluid. As mentioned as in another thread: cover should be an asset, not a handicap. Any ability should be work without cover, cover "just" providing the defense bonus (btw: hunker down could be a passiv part of cover - and yes, I know some will call that overpowered, but play a Sorc/Sage and you will know how much more fluid those play in comparsion).

If it would be force against not force the Trooper and the Bountyhunter would be equally least played like the Smuggler/Imperial Agent. As far as I read (including official statements during beta IIRC) that is not the case.

Disclaimer: english is not my native speaking, so bear with me, please. There is one reason I see the smuggler COULD be the last played class. As I do play the Gunslinger I will just speak of it. First: I do want to say, that it does NOT come down to to many buttons. but to many buttons you have to use within your standard priority system beside using cover (which does also need an extra easily reachable button, but does also bring in some other issues you have to care for) and managing your ressource just to do damage. We are not speaking of utility skills here (also some of those have to be used on a regular basis). Take also into account, that if you are playing especially Saboteur or Dirty Fighting, you do also have to take care of even more buttons because you will have to use some cover only shots beside your out of cover shots which do not get replaced once you are in cover. Because of that the cover-system of the gunslinger is different to a stealth bar (you won´t normally use normal skills once you are in cover). In short, the smuggler (read gunslinger, see above) is too complicated because of too many buttons just to do you regular dmg. If some of you disagree I tell you to play a Sage instead and come back (the difficulty of a sage is different, because there are spells you do use for example to offheal - even as DD, but that is a totally different kind of complexity, because first you do have to decide to do further dmg or heal instead, those extra buttons won´t make your dmg priority system harder). I hear some of you cry, but before I do come up with an (hopefully easy) solution, let me explain my opinion. If one class is harder to play than another you do have a balancing problem. Take a look at pvp: If you have to manage (just a simple example, don´t read to much into it) 7 things when your enemy just have to manage 3 - both players skilled equally: Who do you believe will win? (I do also believe, that this is one reason Guild Wars seems to be better suited to structured pvp than WoW for example - but that´s just an uninformed opinion, I never played GW, just heard and read much of it). It does transfer to pve, too. At one point equally skilled players will be traded differently because the difficulty of the encounter on top of the class will make a difference between a harder and a easier played class. Possible solution: Do not make cover only shots, but make the shots better once the gunslinger uses cover. That way there won´t be even more skills on your bar once you have to take cover.