So.... There comes a point in a games life when you can go 'We release... or we add another feature' Yes there are some bugs. In the big scheme of things, the majority of the bugs arent that bad. You have some people running into some hefty ones (the BH progression comes to mind) but for the most part bugs are annoyance bugs, not actual game breakers (and if you think otherwise, think on how many people are playing this game, now think how many are actually on the forums complaining. Big difference in numbers) Some bugs just wont be found til a game goes live. Its the nature of the world - 1 million users pressing every button, eventually in every combination in every place of the world will beat out the couple thousands they had in betas. Its just going to be that way. And sure. There could be more polishing. But the decision was made - give you a playable product now, or add a new feature that could take months to get right - This isnt a static game where adding a new feature is like snapping in a new part. With the billions upon billions of lines of code, only god knows exactly what could happen when you add a new feature. Mere mortals like us certainly dont. So... Release with a playable product, and the knowledge that -ALL- MMO's go through some hefty changes during content patches that maket he game better as the player base and the company doing the game figure out whats needed where - or wait even longer. I love the story. The game has had very few issues for me, all of the bugs i've encountered have been annoyance types of bugs rather than game breaking cannot connect or play my game bugs. (Yes i know a few people have those. But the couple hundred, maybe even a bare thousand that do have those bugs versus the 1million+ who dont? 1% isnt that big of a number. Even 3-5% isnt that big, if youre feeling generous) I much rather have the game now, and in a few months see neat new features that increase the 'quality of life' on the game, rather than wait another year, two, evne three to see all those features at start.

i am very much waiting and hopping Bioware puts out a g510 applet. Please Bioware! XD

Your missing half the point. 1) The Game is -young- - There is no one to buy this high level stuff yet, not a lot of raids other than the bleeding edge of hardcore raiders. Nothing going ont hat is going to demand a constant influx of new gear. 2) The market is still in huge flux because there is no credits in the system yet. People are looking at this crafting system like it should feel the same as any MMO thats been alive for multiple years... it wont. There is no money in the system yet, (Despite peoples yells about Slicing OP before) there is no one who /needs/ the gear yet, and there are very fewpeople leveling alts in comparison to those running their mains still up and are still below 35! 3) Patience. Ive been saying this before and saying this again. Patience. the game is friggin only a couple of weeks old. It needs time for people to get to 50, have a viable and healthy raid community, and continue. and OP: Yes. It is extremely reasonable for crafting not to make you a profit while you level. a) Alts are what keeps the game going for Bioware. they -want- you to make more than one character because then you will (hopefully) be spending another month or two leveling that character! More subscription fees. So yes, they are going to make a system that encourages you to start a second or a third or more characters after your main gets to 50. b) Choice. That is what Economics is all about in the end. Choice. Do you buy your skill or do you craft? Do you keep up with your gathering or do you get that Speeder? CHOICE. the world is about choice. You dont get everything handed to you because you want it, you have to -work- for it. and believe me. When you work for it? Its that much more satisfying. That mount you buy with your own hard earned cash feels better than if it was handed to you. You may not think so now when your not able to get it, but it will feel much better. Later. And keep you interested in the game longer. Which is what BW wants. You paying for a subscription longer. Sure they may loose a few people who want it all handed to them now, now now. But really? they probably would have lost them in a month or two anyway when they dont have any satisfaction invested in the game. I am a 37 Imp Agent Operative. I have 250k in the bank. I have my speeder and i have 5 oranges on my toon, one on my companion. I have Cybertech, Scavaging, and UT - 171/257/153 respectivly. Is it behind? Yeah. Do i care? No. What have I done for this money? I) ONLY Kaliyo gets upgraded. I never buy anything for her, she only gets her quest rewards or drops that fit. That is it. Why bother buying gear for her that is going to be replace din a few levels? II) I never buy gear for myself. Why bother? Everything I'm wearing is a quest reward or a drop. I dont even need to buy mods with commendations - all my orange peices are Rating 84+ - with all blue or better mods. The last quest Item i got was an Rating 80 Green - there for my gear is better than what the quests are giving me, and therefore i will have the gear to be able to complete the quests. III) Look carefully at the skills. I dont need Headshot as a Healer. I have Evicierate, which does the -exact- same thing except at melee instead of range, and my only stun is melee. Why would I ever bother with a skill Im not going to use? Ill buy it when im maxed, just incase i spec into the range tree, but ... why bother? IV) Use all those commendations to buy blue lock boxes and sell the items inside. I make a good 10-20k profit after each world for this. Its small but it adds up. V) Sell everything. Once I hit 50, and the Quests start giving me pure money rather than xp, ill start pushing my crafting. But why should i worry about crafting until I hit 50? You say you never will have an alt. Well dont you have friends who will? then you can craft stuff for them - at price if your nice, but still. If you -never, ever, ever- make an alt, then you wont need to worry about any of those crafting skills... so why are you bothering leveling it now? Why not just power it when you have free cash coming in for dailies and quests at 50, in order to get what you need for raids? the only reason ic an thinkt hat youd never want an alt is that you plan on raiding and raiding heavily. Thats cool. do that. But you wont need anything till 50, why spend the cash now? Choices. Its all abotu Choices.

Wow... Really? In every MMO ive ever played ive started out with nothing and had to build it up without the help of anything like slicing. now i note that i dotn think slicing needed that much of a nerf... but still. Its not the end of the world. Do your basic gathering skill and sell the mats. youll get money eventually.

As of Now. Wait until Operations get into full gear and BW at least has a chance to look at a healthy and ]full level 50 economy. IF the demand still isnt there then, im certain something will be done. The game is not even officially a week old yet!

seriously? Im sick and tired of this rhetoric. How many 50s are on your server? How many raids are going on every night? How many raid bosses hgave been downed? The level 50 Crafting scene will not exist until raiding starts to get into full steam. Yes right now you can buy 23 mods with commendations. But Once you start getting good raid level gear, are you going to be able to keep up with the commendations to fill it? And by that point im sure the cybertechs will be getting their 23 recipies - hell maybe even 24s! You simply cannot say that crafting at 50 is not useful until raiders start getting into full swing. They are the majority of all buyers of things at 50s to keep up with their raiding habits. Until then, any sort of 'analysis' of crafting at 50 is simply missing a key factor.

really? Cause my Cyber/Scavanger/UT had enough money to buy every skill as it comes up and still level my crafting at a reasonable rate. I dont have slicing. Im not complaining. I can sell my goods at higher prices because there are people with the money to buy them. More for me! Trickle Down theory at work! Hahah

okay so illium has 23. Have you done Ops yet? Commendations are great and all, but gathering up the what, 14? 24? how many commendations? Patience! Yes, right now, it is easier to get commendation gear than the crafting gear becaues commendations are more common than the crafters putting in the time. That will not remain the same. As people get tired of doing dailies for commendations, and more crafters come about with as good as (and eventually, better) op level gear, you -will- find crafting to be insanely important. And you will be amazed at the amount of people who, when Raid night comes along, finds they are just a few commendations short of that new mod for that new item you got last night, and raid starts in 15 mins... guess who is going to be needed then!

SO everyone who 'read' my post then said its not that way.... are you 50? Is there more than 5-10 people who are 50 on at any given time on your server? No? Then you have no idea what crafting will be like. Crafting in 90% of mmo's is not ment for leveling. I am willing to bet a good portion of you played wow - How many of you used any of that blacksmith armor you crafted on your way to 450 blacksmithing? Or just vendored it or gave it to a fellow enchanter to DE? The only game i played where crafting gave you better armor was Anarchy Online - and for that armor you had to gather like 30 pieces of various random crap for each piece! And there were Head, Chest, Arm, Arm, Shoulder, Shoulder, (yes, different sleves and shoulders for each side) Boots, legs, gloves, waist - at LEAST 9 slots of just basic armor, not including all the relic slots and extra item slots. - it took /days/ to get everything to craft a set of armor - luckily that carbonite armor would last you a good time. Crafting is rarely ever ment for the levelers. You level too fast for anything that you make to be really useful - vendored items on the way up will always be easier to get. Once the Operations get into full swing and gear, and everyone starts needing Biochem stims and more mods then they can get commendations for (what commendations at 50 anyways? Commendations are all leveling gear!) then those purple RE'd Mod 30's and so will be needed by crafters. The Schmatics that will drop out of Operations may very well be on par with operation gear - and youll need crafters for them. Patience. Something this generation of children is sadly lacking in.

indeed - but how does that invalidate the OP? How does that make Slicing Over Powered?

well while torhead is datamined information, that doesnt make it 100% reliable. Also, expect new Operations in the game with the first major content patch, and more crafting recipies as well. The game is very new, some things may have been left out for more important fixes to be made rather than content that can be added later.

what do you mean problems with knives? My op rarely shoots his gun - i only shoot when Shive, Deblitate, Backstabe, are on cooldown. And I'm healing speced! When i was Concealment speced i had even -more- knife based skills.

really? You do realize that crafting will provide a) the mods you need to keep looking cool in your orange armor at 50 (Cybertech) b) the stims you need to raid (bio) c) the best raid dropped schematic gear (synthweave, armortech, armstech)d) Gear to get ready /for/ raiding in between drops from heroics (same as above) e) The color crystals you want to make that lightsaber bada** (Artifice) ... Crafting is not important while leveling when you are replacing your gear every couple of missions. This is the way it is in ALL reward based mmo's. Unless you powerlevel your crafting stats in the early levels so your crafting gear is higher than the mission gear you get, you wont need it while leveling. and 95% of the game is still leveling right now. Crafting is just as important as any mmo - you just arent max level when it /becomes/ important.

sometimes the RE button dissapears. Try reloading your UI (ctrl-u twice in quick succession) and logging in and out. Also try talking to various vendors - check the RE sticky at the top of this forum, it talks about it. What your talking about is a bug.

yeah its your server. I sell Bronzium for 500 for a stack of 10. I sell Grade 2 and grade 3 purple mats for 1k a piece. So... wait for your economy to stabilize and INFLATION (oh my god!) Kick in and allow you to make money off your gathering professions ( oh my goodness. Good Inflation)