Noth
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Posts posted by Noth
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Force Choke has turned many battles in my favor 1v1. It gives you that extra time to pull off a few moves and hit them where it counts.
When it is channeled like in any spec that is not immortal It does not allow you to do anything but channel. thus you don't get to do a few moves.
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And, again, different classes are different. Electrocute is great for SI's, but SA's have to be careful managing their force energy in order to ensure they can use it when they need it. I'm sure a number of sorcs would just love it if Electrocute was channeled but also restored 1/4 of their total force bar.
Grass is greener blah blah blah. Point being, different classes are different. Different skills are different. Is Jug suffering in pvp? Not that I've seen. Maybe at 50 with a bunch of min/maxing going on things will be different, but I found that highly unlikely given the number of tools the class has at its disposal.
SA have many ways of regening their force. never met an SA in PvP that couldn't use it on damand. the class only has a lot of tools as a tank. Otherwise we have lesser form of tools the other classes have.
It's almost as bad as the people saying it's ok for us to be crit for 3k plus 2-3 times in a row but for use to not be able to do that. Having that happen to a dps jugg is a death sentence as they don't have the mitigation to survive against the rest of the other classes dps.
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Melee attacks are a 4 meter range. 5 > 4.
Ranged.
Ranged aoe typically means you can cast it at a greater range than yourself. PBAoE (Point blank AoE) is what our snare is.
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yea, just figured worth asking if anyone's been lvling / grouping as jugg dps. i like being different, figuring most sith war dps are marauders
you're saying marauder dps spec has more survivability than jugg dps spec?
like detaunts, damage reduction, what?
They get self heals and a defensive cooldown that can last up to 30 seconds with a minute cooldown (can spec to make it less of a cooldown). They get a ranged snare for kiting or escaping, they get force cloak for escaping and buying time. they get one of our 3 minute cooldown (granted it doesn't have the bonuses for the first two seconds like the juggs), they can get decreased leap cooldown and decreased leap range to help with in combat mobility. Now granted most of this is in the annihilation tree which is the best overall spec for the marauder, the other trees for them need to be brought up to par along with the dps tree of the Jugg.
We get an additional 3 minute cooldown that can actually kill us if it wears off at the wrong time and our heavy armor is only about 5% better at mitigation than the marauder's medium armor. I soloed with vengeance all the way to 50 so it is usable, but that does not mean that it is up to par.
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You can do a lot of damage as a dps jugg, you simply lack survivability compared to the other dps classes. Our tank spec doesn't give up much of the dps and gets a tone more survivability as well.
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If anyone reads this far...
Just a quick tactics blerb.
As a Jugg you have a ranged AoE Snare and a ranged taunt.
If you have a ranged companion (like Vette) you can repeatedly snare melee mobs and just kite them while your ranged companion kills them. Taunt and Scream as necessary...
No problems killing anything as a Jugg with Vette as a companion up to level 30.
You do not have a range AoE snare. You have a PbAoE snare that snares in a 5 meter radius around you.
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Noth, you take nay-saying to a whole new level, you really do. Other classes stuns also don't deal a good chunk of damage while providing resources at the same time. In short, different classes are different.
As for uses in pvp, the obvious peel-and-control usage is the most common. The rage gain is secondary, but can be nice as preparation to unleashing some burst damage (i.e. Smash/Scream/Impale combination or something).
It's also nice as a ghetto interrupt when Disruption is on cooldown. Between Choke, Disruption, Push, and Charge, you keep a single target locked out of a move for quite some time.
Again, all that can be done by a real stun to a much better degree. There stuns don't need to do good damage they can hit you for 3k crits twice while you are stunned (our choke certainly doesn't hit for that much).
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Using it to set up a ravage or Force Push into env is nice. To interrupt a healer close to death spamming those big heals and cd's.
first part can only be done if you are immortal spec which turns it into a true stun.
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Huttball, the flag carrier is crossing fire vents while theyre off, force choke, scorched, win
How about other classes can do this too and not have to stun themselves as well. Force choke is nice, just other classes stuns out class it.
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ran into my first problem as a Jugg today. The last battle in the story. Tried My negeance spec I leveled with the entire time, failed couldn't do enough damage fast enough, and couldn't take the damage output. Switched to Immortal. Still could deal damage fast enough. The fight lasted longer but ended at about the same xp. Every fight I blow all my cooldowns, bounce aggro between myself and companions. Tried it with a tank companion, a healing companion, and a dps companion. the lowest I got him was 25% and that was with vengeance and Vette along with heavy kiting. I've been told it was easily soloable for Immortal but I just can't see it.
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I hope they add an option in the future to allow crafting stations, maybe on you ship or what not. That way you can do the crafting yourself instantaneously without the need for waiting.
Doubtful. The crafting times create a gate. It's done to prevent people from grinding a craft in one day and to allow you to do other things while still crafting.
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A DPS jugg is not much tougher than a Sorc and has less tools to escape and CC.
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Investing in a g13 and a naga was a very smart thing for this game
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Right now I'm lvl 31, using Jaesa as a companion. Pretty much since i left Dromund Kaas I have been doing quests higher level than me, because I level up too slowly. I run out of quests before I should move on. The gap between me and my quests gets higher, now I'm doing quests 4 levels above me.
You should not be running out of quests. I've skipped every heroic (not enough people my level to party with) and nearly every bonus series and still am at level.
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I've already answered your gripes and i'm not going to sit here and debate theorycrafting with you. All you are describing is how you get beat by people better than you, plain and simple. I am fighting the same random levels of people in Warzones that you are with the same level of arbitrary difficulty. I have already mentioned that I don't have the problems you do, or at least not to the extent you seem to be having them.
Please tell me how you manage to crit half as hard as I do at a higher level and the answer not be either: a) It's bugged or b) you're doing it wrong.
Here's the thing, I have these problems and adapt to them. I regularly am in the top on damage and protection (even as a dps spec) and MVP in warzones, very hard to do If I am bad. I roll face on people that don't know what they are doing, but people that do know what they are doing have no problem keeping me off of them. As more people learn how to do so, the problem will only become worse. Rather see it not become that bad. And again the issue has existed for months. If there was really nothing wrong it would had died down a lot more.
As for the critting I can't say because I'm in purple and blue strength gear with stacked crit (even some expertise on it as well)
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I put the important parts in BOLD to help!
Force Charge
Instant
Range: 30m
Jumps to a distant target, dealing 1347 - 1437 damage with the main-hand weapon, immoblizing the target for 2 seconds and interrupting the target's current action. Builds 3 rage. Cannot be used against targets in cover.
Stagger
Increases the duration of Force Charge's Immobilize effect by [0.5 second / 1 seconds].
Ravage
Instant
Range: 4m
Performs a series of lightsaber attacks that deals 891 - 981 weapon damage over 3 seconds. Standard and weak enemies are additionally stunned for the duration of the effect. Strikes with both weapons if dual wielding.
You should never have a problem landing a full ravage after a stagger talanted charge, gcd or not. The 4m range of ravage more than makes up for it.
You aren't calculating the GCD. The root starts when the animation for charge starts. This animation lasts 1.5 seconds (the GCD). That leaves .5 seconds (1.5 seconds talents) to do something with. Stagger just guarantees two of the hits. I have wiffed on many of the last hits with the stagger talent.
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Let me reiterate that everyone says Jugg gets BETTER at higher levels. Except you.
I don't have any of these problems you mention, though. Force Charge/Unstoppable/Chilling Scream is all I have ever needed to keep up with my target. I play against levels 10 to 50, just like you. Also: I have played other classes, but I didn't create a TANK class to /faceroll DPS meters even though sometimes I do.
I never said they didn't get better because they do. Other classes just get even better. Against another class if they know what they are doing there is no way for me to beat them. Unstoppable gives me 2.5 seconds of freedom against them (GCD of charge) after that they can do what ever they want. Chilling scream only helps if they decide to blow their CC during unstoppable or simply try and run, both show a poor awareness. I've been burned down by a single player in the 15 seconds it took for charge to come back (even with blowing saber ward. Not a single thing i could do.
Please tell me how my two biggest attacks that I can reliably use in pvp critting for 1.5k is balance against other classes reliable attacks critting for 3k+ with those classes not giving up much survivability (heavy armor is not much more survivable, heals, escapes, shields) while also having more CC is balanced.
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Ok. Thx for answer.
Do you know how/where i can see the effect off the +xxx force power on gear on my character?
Higher is better offcourse but how do i see how and how much it improves my force abillites?
Probably something i have missed that is obvious:)
In the character screen go to where it says melee or defense and click to bring up a menu. Then you select force.
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Read Force Charge tool tip +Stagger (Rage) =3 seconds of ravage!
It's like magic!
you only get 1.5 (.5 without the talent) seconds of effective immobilize thanks to the gcd. Yay for maths.
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Give it time, MMOs are always evolving. A good motto to follow as a MMO player: "If there is something you don't like just wait because it will change."
It has been given time. These same complaints have been in beta for months (ever since they removed pull from juggs and did some overhaul to it).
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Maybe you're just bad; ever thought of that? I'm 23 and I don't have any complaints as a Veng-spec'd Jugg. Everyone says it should get better or be easier at higher levels, well I think it's pretty damn good right now. The class needs a little work, but I think some of you just need to L2P or re-roll.
When I was 23 I was rolling face. I roll face now against people who have no idea what they are doing. Anyone who knows what they are doing will not let a Venge jugg stay close as the venge jugg as little mobility, and little CC.
Now it is not uncommon for me to run into people close to my level and while I will crit for 1.5k with impale and almost that with scream (wearing purples and blues), I'll get crit for 3k back to back from range. You'd think they'd be squishier than me when i get to them? nope, they tear me down faster in melee range or have so many outs it's not even funny.
Seriously, play another class and actually see how the Jugg is actually lacking. Any class can own against dumb players. Immortal Jugg is a god in Huttball though.
no i don't. i sometimes group with guild mates that heal, but usually i solo queue or group with a juggernaut and a assassin. I'm marauder btw, not jug. what i mentioned before was about my friend the jug who is awesome at it.You jugg friend who is a tank... It has the tools to do well in pvp. Not having those tools is a massive downgrade.
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Juggernauts are amazing. I'm rolling a Rage Jugg and I'm usually in the top 2 on pvp. No im not trying to brag, but we have so much mobility that its ridiculous. You just need to play the class right. Stuns galore.
As rage spec you have 1 stun and that stun also stuns you. Then you get a stun later on that last 6 seconds is aoe and breaks on damage. Hate to tell you this IA get that at a very low level, and their's is ranged and lasts 8 seconds.
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+xxx force power?
Does force power on gear matter at all for a Sith Warrior? I can't find anything it influences on my char. If it matters where can I see the difference?
Thx inn advance for answers:)
Force scream, force choke and smash are force powers and thus effected by force power
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excellent post. way overdue. disregard noth. great job.
I'm correct and the reason for my tone of the response is because it's been pointed out many time before throughout beta every time he posted this guide. It has yet to be changed.
Force Choke and PVP
in Guardian / Juggernaut
Posted
Leveled to 50 as vengeance, regularly at the top of Warzones in both damage and protection. We can be played well and I have fun with the class, that however does not make me turn a blind eye to problems with the class, the problems have been there since beta when there was lots of 50s playing. We are not a bit tankier than other classes when specced as dps. Heavy armor is not that much of a protection boost at all and other classes tend to have cooldowns and even heals to make them more tanky than us. Marauders as dps hit harder than a dps spec jugg and are tankier than dps spec juggs, have more CC than dps spec juggs (they can get an additional root on their mortal strike).
I really don't think you get what the problem with us being able to be hit for chains of 3k+ while hitting for much less. We do not have an HP advantage nor much of a mitigation advantage as dps. That is a major issue.