Definitions: Pros: cheaters, bot-users, exploiters, arena-flair-users, mouse-with-246-buttons-users, real-pros, and premade-groups Casuals: players forced in PvP by season objectives, players forced in PvP by PvP-season items they want to have, people that just want to have some PvP-fun, and solo-players that are not Pros Disclaimer: That cheating exists (!!!) is absolutely stated in the top thread in this forum. So please do not pretend that is doesn't. Thank you very much. Helpful comments: Everything on topic. Useless comments: 'Learn to play!' or similar nonsense. Topic: Even after introducing PvP-seasons and deactivating Arena-mode, PvP still sucks. To be honest, it sucks even more. Problems that seam unsolvable: Matchmaking Balancing Preventing cheating Preventing bot-using Preventing exploiting Problems that can be solved easily: premades suspected cheater, bot-user, and exploiter prevention surrender option Argument: PvP totally sucks for Casuals. Pros reign supreme in battlegrounds. Casuals can only hope to get matched into a Pros group to win a match. For a Casual it takes about 3-4 hours of constant battleground PvP to get the weekly PvP-quest over with. For Pros it is like maybe an hour, maybe less. That sucks! Pros ruin the PvP experience for any Casual, especially when they harass Casuals by hunting, camping and farming them. There are a lot of options that could be implemented to increase the PvP experience for Casuals and for Pros alike. Option 1: Surrender Option Sometimes you immediately know that you won't stand a chance against the Pros. You spot a certain guild, an arena-flair, or the Pros scored 4 points in huttball in less than 2 minutes. Casuals know that they cannot win, but are forced to play along, just to get the score for the weekly quest or the laughably 6 points for the PvP-season. Why not give an option to surrender? The Pros get their win and all the benefits, and the Casuals can save a lot of valuable time. (Example: Voidstar / 7 minutes getting farmed as defendant and another 7 minutes as attacker) Or implement a safe-zone. A lot of Casuals are showing their surrender by sitting down and no further participation. (Sadly that is not recognized by the Pros that still come after them like it would benefit them somehow...) Why not implement a safe-zone where Casuals can take a refuge from constant harassment by getting farmed like NPC mobs? Option 2: Ignore-list Arena is over! There is no need for a deactivated ignore-list for matchmaking. Most Casuals are no YouTubers, Instagrammers, TikTokers, or video-makers. But they are not stupid. They are able to spot those Pros, that are likely to be cheaters. With an activated ignore-list on matchmaking, they could minimize the chances of getting them as enemies. (Irony on.) Pros 'won't use' this option because they are 'too OP' for anyone. (Irony off.) Also, when someone puts another player on his ignore-list, it signals that they don't want to play with that person. Neither with nor against them. Activate the ignore-list for PvP already! Option 3: Premades can only queue for arena matches Just cancel the option for groups queuing for battlegrounds. Easy as that. Most Casuals just want to get some PvP-points to fulfill certain objectives. A few points in seasons, or some in PvP-seasons, or maybe for the 2000 (!!!) tech-fragments in the weekly quest. They don't join premades, they just want to play a few quick PvP games. Chances would be higher to accomplish these objectives, when Pros are forced to fend for themselves. Also they would be matched against each other, or even better stay with arena fights altogether. Cancel group queuing for battlegrounds! Option 4: Solve the 'unsolvable' problems already For Casuals the matchmaking looks like this: 'Hm? 4 man premade. Group 1. Oh? Another premade! Group 1. Ahh! Any other combination of players. Group 2! Matchmaking completed!' Solving that issue should be really easy. Just match premade group one with premade group two and fill up with any other combination. Or even better: Break up the premades and match them into different groups. That would be fun. Get your act together with the balancing already! The classes should work like rock-paper-scissors. They don't! Pros can kill any class with ease and without any fears. Most classes have skills that are laughably OP. Stop the 'How about this class gets an OP skill to kill everybody'-BS and balance the classes already. It cannot be that some debuffs last for a minute and kill your char one or the other way, while other debuffs, that are essential for your class only last for 4 seconds and make less damage than a normal hit. Every game is modable. For every game do exist bots. Any game mechanic can be exploited. I know that, you know that. Do something about it! And don't ask me. I am no coder, no dev, no game-designer. Not my job, yours! I pay you for a solution with my sub. Conclusion: PvP can be a lot of fun. It is fun for Pros and it should be fun for Casuals. Do something meaningful, please!

Is that so? Interesting. So players that don't care about pvp at all, but go to warzones for Major Pierce or GS do have to be automatically good or bad no matter their experience in pvp? What is the argument here? Yes, full time job. Way older than 15. Name a 15 year old that does not live at home. And don't pretend you know anything about every grown adult. Don't judge a book by its cover, or how was that saying? And as I already told someone else: Don't try to analyse me, analyse the problem I describe. And yes, as I want this topic to be discussed and ranked players are still flooding the warzones, I spent the 4-5 hours on keeping this thread up and running instead of playing pvp. I am still not 'complaining'. I want a solution to this topic.

As what does 'fun' count? Ego? Maybe the problem is that nobody wants to have fun in pvp anymore? Have you ever played a warzone, that was so exciting, that no matter win or lose you just cheered for the experience? I have. A lot. And I want that back. Simple as that. Are you talking about 1 game or 4-5 hours of games? Just curious. I bet you never encountered a ranked player who only focused you for a whole game, killing you over and over again, wherever you are on the map, only searching for you because he knows that he can kill you with ease? I did never say that ranked players should be banned from the game. I want them banned from 'casual' / normal / non-ranked warzones. I even want them to have their own warzones, far away from casual gamers. They can have as much fun as they possibly want in their ranked groups and challenging ranked warzones. I don't care. What I care about is that their fun is killing mine. Again and again: I don't mind losing a warzone. As long as it was fun to play. I don't care about winning or losing. I gladly lose 12 fun games in a row instead of winning 4 games that are no fun at all. Pvp should be a fun experience. And there is no fun to be had when ranked players are dominating the map, no matter win or lose. Alternatively I suggest a game-wide working ignore-list. Then I and other players like me can put those ranked players on ignore and will never ever again be matched with or against them. Is that salty as well?

I know that English is not my native tongue, but I am convinced 'their' is not equal 'I'. I am finished with GS for weeks now. And strangely I 'complain' now. Think about it, maybe you get it. I enjoy them a lot, when they are fun to play. That's why I play pvp in the first place. That's why I started this threat. Please don't try to analyse me instead of analyzing the problem I am talking about. At least be honest. If you have something constructive to say, be my guest.

I am really happy for you. Great when people can enjoy the modern favored class to its maximum. Really. But I play like 20 games a day and win like 4 of them, giving my best, calling for help, guarding pylons, carrying balls, collecting objectives, and so on. I haven't 'complained' for 10 years. I am just now stating the obvious. Those players/accounts with ranked flairs are killing the fun in 'casual' warzone pvp matches.

Most of the time, yes. I want them banned from 'normal' - casual / standard - warzones. They can have their own. As far as I know they had once. (I wonder why that was removed?) I do not want pvp to die. I like warzones, collecting objectives, and win/lose with a good feeling. I have a full time job. And after work I want to chill with SWtoR and play a few fun pvp games. True. That is why I want ranked players forced in their own league. Or a working ignore-list that won't match me with or against the people I chose to ignore.

Got me! As it is, English is not my native tongue. Sorry when something is strange or misspelled. Farmed, ganked, ownd, globaled, whatever the modern term is. Yes, I don't like to be killed over and over again by ranked players for their personal amusement and kill-counter. I do not have a problem with getting killed in a warzone match. I don't mind losing matches. I want to have fun in pvp warzones. Sometimes losing a game is much more fun than winning it, when it is challenging. Ranked player pre-mades globaling the entire map for 8 minutes straight and still losing the match is a win that makes no fun at all. Same when globaled 16 minutes straight (in VS) and losing. Same when matched - why ever - to an arena map, when queuing for warzones. Ranked players are professionals, I am not. They have their buddies in pre-mades or in communication apps, I play alone. They know all the tricks, I don't. personal impression: Their talents, relics, and stats work as designed, mine somehow don't. really bad thoughts: They know how to cheat unpunished, I don't. Ranked players are professionals that should not be allowed in non-professional warzone games. They should have their own league (of legends), play against equals, fight against their peers, compete with players that are as skilled as they are. Complicated: There should be an honest matching algorithm, that pulls pre-mades apart and puts the players against each other, should put guild-mates on opposite sides, match equipment correctly, match classes correctly, and match groups differently every game. Simple: Ranked warzones for ranked registered players. Even more simple: A working ignore-list that functions in PvP.

This is the first time someone at least tries to be of help. Thanks for that! I will try to explain. Indeed. Of course pvp is competitive. I did not say it wasn't. I enjoy warzone pvp a lot. I do almost nothing else. Thing is, that ranked players are playing pvp in another league than casual gamers. That is why they compete in ranked games for special rewards, right? They are especially good at what they do, right? Why don't highschool kids play in the Superbowl? Any suggestions? Why do ranked players participate in warzones? Maybe there is no 'number' attached to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. There are people that just want to have a good time playing pvp warzones. I don't mind losing a game as long as it was a fun time. And I enjoy winning as long as the game was challenging. Getting globaled 16 minutes straight in VS does not make any fun and there is no challenge to be had. Losing HB in less than 4 minutes does not make fun. Arena is not a warzone and doesn't make any fun at all. Ranked players should not be allowed to queue for 'normal' - not ranked - warzones, as professional football players are not allowed to play in highschool football games. Simple as that. As I said, I enjoy pvp warzones a lot. I do almost nothing else. Like 4-5 hours a day. As I go along I LTP. But I don't reach the point where I become the unstoppable killing machine ranked players became. Maybe because I don't own a mouse with 246 buttons on it. Maybe because I am no keybinding god. Maybe because I don't get the clue for two-hitting tanks. I enjoy collecting the objectives and win/lose the game as best as I can. The matchmaking fault can easily be fixed by giving ranked players their own warzones. You are registered for ranked games? You are matched with other players that are registered for ranked games. This should be the easiest database query ever. Like at most 5 lines of code? Maybe 6? Maybe you see my suggestion as 'complaining', could be. I think about getting better but against 8 ranked players in 2 pre-made groups you can think about whatever you want, you won't get better. You get better when matched against people that are on your level of skill, experience and equipment. Or putting it more simple: against other casual - nor ranked - players. I would like to be mentored. When you do have a character on the German server Tulak Hord I would appreciate your company. Thanks for the offer. On my server there are round about 40 people playing pvp. Mostly you are matched with and against the same people for 4-8 hours, depending on the day of the week. Like 20 of them are ranked players. So getting a group of people that are just as bad as you are yourself is the most challenging part. But sometimes it happens. 8 casuals matched against 8 casuals. Awesome games. A lot of fun to be had, no matter win or lose. The games are challenging, funny, and rewarding. I like losing 12 fun games with other casuals more than winning 4 games with ranked players. And losing 12 games against ranked players is the most annoying waste of time there is. Especially when the ranked players don't even care about winning and only care about their kill results. I troll those ranked players in VS when we were defenders first by just opening the first door and ending the game as quickly as possible. Maybe I was able to show you, that I don't want to be matched against players that are worse than me, I just don't want to be matched against ranked players. Ranked players are very skilled, no doubt, but they are way out of the league casual gamers are. They should have their own warzones. On my server that would mean that 20 ranked players would have their challenging games and 20 casual gamers would have their own challenging games. Again, I don't mind losing. I want to have fun. But there is no fun to be had when ranked players are in the game. Just like in the football analogy I mentioned. Professionals are not allowed in non-professional games. So why not in SWTOR? Another idea would be to activate the ignore-list for pvp. Then I could put the 20 ranked players on my list and will never be matched with or against them anymore. I wouldn't mind waiting 20-30 minutes for a fun pvp game. No, it is not. As explained above, ranked players are professionals. So let them play in their professional games. Somewhere in the code is a database where participants in ranked games are registered. Use it for matching purposes. Simple as that. What kind of system that is? A real life system by which sports are done for ages. It is not rocket science. To address the 'tank' thingy: "Well, you don't want to be a tank anymore? Make a new character." No rocket science either. I play SWTOR for 10 years now. I experienced pvp in all eras of the game. And I think I reached the point where no information - in game or otherwise - will change that. I totally understand what is going on. Ranked players love terrorizing casual players in warzones for their own pleasure. Sometimes they even admit it. Sometimes they tell other ranked players, that they just want to farm kills and don't care about winning. Sometimes they accidentally tell you that they are just in the game to sabotage your team so their buddies win. I experienced all of that more than once. And yes, that is unfair. That there will be content to help in this matter is highly unlikely. I already mentioned two simple tweaks to end the problem. 1) Match ranked against ranked and casual against casual. Simple database query. 2) Activate the ignore-list for pvp. When somebody is on my ignore-list I don't want to play with them at all. Sadly I still see their emotes and am matched with and against them in pvp. That can't be too difficult to fix. 2-4 lines of code maybe? This almost sounds like you are one of the developers. Then go for it. Databased query or game-wide active ignore-list. Problem solved. Either one of those solutions shouldn't take you more than a day and would end the discussion about pvp problems that do not involve bugs, imbalance, favored classes, or broken equipment up- or downgrades. Pardon me, but those same players are the last people on earth I would want to have contact with. They would all be on my ignore-list, if it would work correctly. They are not nice people. Maybe on your server they are the best. Could be, on my server they are horrible people. As I mentioned earlier "This is the first time someone at least tries to be of help. Thanks for that!" I put like 30 questions down here, but realized they were corrupted by emotions. So I won't bother you with them here and now. Thanks for the offer none the less. And many thanks for the first constructive reply I've read on the matter.

How exactly does this 'solve' the problem? What is the gain of casual pvp players in your suggestion? Again, how exactly does this improve my PVP experience? Why aren't you honest? At least you could mention VS, where I get globaled 16 Minutes straight. Your response only proves that you are part of the addressed problem. So your answer is useless as well. Sad day.

Did I address the GS at all? How would that help the issue addressed above? Who said that? I like playing pvp warzones. I do almost nothing else. Round about 4 hours a day. What I don't like are ranked players ruining the fun of it. PvP would be much more popular when ranked players would stick to ranked games. But they don't. God only knows why. So what is the issue with giving ranked players their own ranked warzones? I know. That would be too demanding, right? Not globaling everyone on the map with your team? Actually having to show how skilled you really are? That's not possible. Everything that counts it the kill-counter, am I correct? I address an issue that is plaguing the pvp area for years. I stick my finger in the wound. Your response proves that more than you think. Maybe you should try to understand the problem instead of calling BS on everything I said. Your post also proves that the forums are absolutely no 'safe space' and obviously there is no 'sympathetic shoulder to cry on'. Your answer would be much different if it was. In the end your response only proves my point, that ranked players should be separated from casual pvp players. Indeed. That is why College Football Teams play in the Super Bowl all the time. Oh wait! They don't! Ageist? Just kidding. Where exactly did I reference 'practice dolls'? Or do you just want to show 'how funny' you are? You're not. I want to have fun warzone games with other casual pvp players, run my objectives and win/lose with a good feeling. That is all I want. But people like you - ranked player I guess - won't accept that and keep on terrorizing warzones. Sadly, your response is useless.

Who said that? So the best advice you can give to a person that enjoys the casual pvp warzones is 'try operations'? Sorry, but your statement doesn't even remotely addresses the issue.

Thanks for information I already know. Nice copy&paste but what is your point? Is that so? Tell me, which is the 'right' game mode to play warzones without ranked players ruining the fun of the experience? As far as I know there is no objectives pvp in operations, or is there? Your comment is useless, but thanks for trying.

Ranked players are terrorizing casual pvp players in warzones all the time. There is no game in which ranked players are not only killing you but the whole fun of the experience as well. They don't even care about winning, they just want to annoy casual gamers that want to play pvp and have fun. I played the yavin ruins today and the enemy team (all players with a ranked flair active) just ran over the map killing everyone regardless of the pylons. We had all 3 pylons until it was impossible that the enemy team could win as long as we only kept one pylon in possession. And even then they just took one pylon. One. Not 3 as they surely were able to. So we won. Yay... Fun? None! Ban ranked players from casual warzones already and give them their own warzones instead.

Quite funny you think there even is a 'matchmaking algorithm'. I guarantee you there is not. If there was one, you would only get arena fights in casual pvp. There is no matching taking place at all. I experienced an arena game where the enemy team had 330. All of them. In my group there was one 327, one 324, one 321, and one 236! Believe me, there is absolutely no matchmaking algorithm at work at all. If there was, this constellation could have never happened.

I bet you have 330 gear, augmented, are a ranked player and only join warzones in your ranked group, right? Bioware can fix that easily by banning ranked players from casual warzones. They already made their decision by playing ranked pvp. So queue them against other ranked players and not casuals. Easy as that. LTP is not helping anybody when 8 ranked players are ganking up on you and kill you in 2 seconds. There is nothing you can learn by that. It is only frustrating. PvP is almost dead because ranked players are terrorizing casual gamers that just want to finish their weekly quests for gear or their GS objectives. And no guide, no overrated statement, and no theoretical objections will change that. Ranked players must not be queued for casual warzones. Period.